Idaho Red Rocket 3
Living Legend
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2008
- Messages
- 5,720
- Location
- Nampa, Idaho USA
- Ride
- 2006 RIII Standard Bagger w/Fairing
The correct torque setting is 15 NEWTONMETERS.
ZoneIII
Supercharged
Nope! It's a shop. I'm 70 years old and what you might call a tool freak. I've been adding to my tools for 54 years. The shop is so crammed with tools and machines that the last time I was able to get a car in it was in the early 80s. In fact, we're looking to move to another state and one of the requirements is it that the property has to include at least one large outbuilding to be used as a shop.
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ZoneIII
Supercharged
That's correct. My typo. I corrected my original post so as to not lead someone astray. Thanks for pointing that out. I do torque to 15nm (11 lb/ft.).
ZoneIII
Supercharged
You're right. 15 lbs is too much. That was a typo on my part. I torque to 15nm (11 lbs/ft.) But I never even got close to 15nm because the bolt started spinning freely when it was barely over finger tight.
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1olbull
Riding Motor Since 1950
Nope! It's a shop. Six stationary machines, literally thousands of tools (that's actually an understatement), workbenches, parts cleaners, welding equipment, etc. It's crammed, especially in the winter when I move some stuff from my shed into the shop. It's not a garage because I haven't been able to fit a vehicle in it for over 25 years. It's not big but people are amazed when they see how much stuff is crammed in it. Literally every inch of every wall is covered with tools and tools are even hanging from the rafters. Automotive equipment and lots of woodworking tools, machines, etc. I store the Rocket in my trailer during the winter but I got it out last week. Once I get my big snowblower back in the shed and other stuff that I put in the shop during the winter, I'll have room to work on the Rocket in the shop but not that much. I usually take it outside to work on it. I have to work on my truck and SUV outside too. I need a bigger shop!
Sounds good, now I'd like to see more.
Nat67
Rockgoblin
Sounds like you need to move te Texas !Nope! It's a shop. Six stationary machines, literally thousands of tools (that's actually an understatement), workbenches, parts cleaners, welding equipment, etc. It's crammed, especially in the winter when I move some stuff from my shed into the shop. It's not a garage because I haven't been able to fit a vehicle in it for over 25 years. It's not big but people are amazed when they see how much stuff is crammed in it. Literally every inch of every wall is covered with tools and tools are even hanging from the rafters. Automotive equipment and lots of woodworking tools, machines, etc. I store the Rocket in my trailer during the winter but I got it out last week. Once I get my big snowblower back in the shed and other stuff that I put in the shop during the winter, I'll have room to work on the Rocket in the shop but not that much. I usually take it outside to work on it. I have to work on my truck and SUV outside too. I need a bigger shop!
ZoneIII
Supercharged
Sounds like you need to move te Texas !
That's a possibility. Last winter we spent a week outside of Terlingua on the western border near Big Bend National Park. What great riding! But we really are northern people who love forests and lakes so we're looking in the driftless area of southwest Wisconsin for a large property. It has some beautiful hills and curves. (We live in the People's Socialist Republic of Illinois. We have to get out of this disaster of a state after a lifetime of living here.)
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ZoneIII
Supercharged
I apologize for the length of this post but I thought I'd be detailed in case anyone else runs into this problem and might find this helpful. My advice is to always put Never Seez or a similar product on the threads of the drain plugs. I don't think I did with this drain plug. Even so, I don't think it would have avoided the problem I describe here because the drain plug came out fine and started spinning freely when it wasn't even tightened yet. Very strange. I would have thought that the problem would occur when removing the plug because it did take a little force to break it free (and I do torque it to proper spec every time I install it). But that's not what happened.
In my 54 years (since I was 16) I can't think of what should have been a minor problem like this turn into such a big problem. In my old age, I'm patient and almost never run into a problem I can't fix as good as new. Not this time! I do virtually all my work on everything exept electronic stuff.
I removed the left muffler for good access to the plug but the darn plug refused to come out. It just spun. Because the plug head was almost completely in the recess, I modified a tool to get a really good grip on it so I could pull outward on the plug. Even with very high force on the plug while turning, it simply would not come out. It just spun freely. Next I tried heating the plug up by holding a special flat tip on a soldering gun on it for about 20 minutes. The hope was that the bolt might expand and "grab." I had little hope that that would work because the heat would dissipate into the bevel box case but it was worth a try because the next step would be drilling it out and I wanted to avoid that. As suspected, it didn't work. I couldn't use a torch because that would obviously mess up the bevel box case. So drilling was next. I started with a tiny bit, perfectly centered and in alignment and worked up to larger bits gradually. I remembered that the drain plug narrowed right under the head and then widened out for the threads. When I got to a bit that was the same diameter of the narrow part of the plug, the plug head came off as expected. So far so good. I expected to see the threaded portion of the plug and since I only drilled as deep as the depth of the plug head, I expected to see the remains of the plug. But what I found was an open hole all the way through. I could see the ring gear teeth. That surprised me. Where was the rest of the plug? Was the threaded portion of the plug hollow? I don't remember it being hollow. (If anyone can confirm whether it's hollow or solid, please let me know. Also, is the magnet in the center of the plug bolt or is the magnet the threaded part. In other words, is the magnet inserted into the bolt? I wish I had a drain plug to look at closely now. If anyone has a picture of one including a picture of the end, I would greatly appreciate it if you could post it. )
I examined the hole with a fiber optic inspection camera. Just a hole all the way through with the ring gear visible. I'm thinking, Uh oh! Did the magnet or the end of the bolt drop into the bevel box? But that didn't even seem possible because it was never turned in fully. (The plug started spinning while screwing it in not much more than finger tight - virtually no torque at all. Looking at the flat at the bottom of the recess where the plug goes in - that the lip on the plug tightens to, I knew the threaded part had to be still screwed in. So an Easy Out (Screw Extractor) was next. Even with very high force, nothing would budge. This was getting frustrating. At that point, I couldn't see any choice but to gradually drill the hole larger, hoping that the threaded part would get thin enough to the point that it could be removed but no luck. It's as if it's welded into the threads which is really weird because it hadn't even been tigthened.
So now I have a dilemma. I can try to thread it and put a short bolt in it to replace the plug but I'm not sure if that will work after all the drilling done already and I have to be careful not to cut through the walls of the case. Another option is to permanenly plug it by tapping it, screwing in a short headless slotted or allen head stud and then filling the recess with JB Weld and blending it with the case. I hate doing anything like that but my options are limited at this point. As far as draining goes with no drain plug, that's no problem. I have a fluid pump that would do that easily. I use it for the front differential on my truck. The only issue is that there won't be a magnet but I change the bevel box gear at every oil change although that doesn't guarantee that metal bits would be sucked out. Any aluminum crap from drilling and threading aren't magnetic anyway but I have a way of cleaning that out with fairly decent confidence.
I have two other options. Buy a used bevel box. There's usually several on eBay going for $500 or so. But who knows how a used one was used and if the owner ever bothered to change the gear oil. That's a risky option.
The last option is to order a new bevel box. I think they're about $2,200 - $2,300 plus tax and shipping. OUCH! But I may end up going tha way in the end. All for a darn stuck drain plug! But delivery would probably be months away, especially with the coronovirus. Even small things I've ordered on Amazon that usually would arrive the same or next day projected to take more than a month for delivery because of the coronovirus so I'm guessing getting a new bevel box might take to well into the summer.
So..... I think I'll first try to tap and plug it. If that doesn't work out, I'll plug and fill it permanently. At least that should get me on the road. I just hope there's no metal (like a magnet!) in the bevel box that I miss when cleaning it out. That would not be good. :-(
In my 54 years (since I was 16) I can't think of what should have been a minor problem like this turn into such a big problem. In my old age, I'm patient and almost never run into a problem I can't fix as good as new. Not this time! I do virtually all my work on everything exept electronic stuff.
I removed the left muffler for good access to the plug but the darn plug refused to come out. It just spun. Because the plug head was almost completely in the recess, I modified a tool to get a really good grip on it so I could pull outward on the plug. Even with very high force on the plug while turning, it simply would not come out. It just spun freely. Next I tried heating the plug up by holding a special flat tip on a soldering gun on it for about 20 minutes. The hope was that the bolt might expand and "grab." I had little hope that that would work because the heat would dissipate into the bevel box case but it was worth a try because the next step would be drilling it out and I wanted to avoid that. As suspected, it didn't work. I couldn't use a torch because that would obviously mess up the bevel box case. So drilling was next. I started with a tiny bit, perfectly centered and in alignment and worked up to larger bits gradually. I remembered that the drain plug narrowed right under the head and then widened out for the threads. When I got to a bit that was the same diameter of the narrow part of the plug, the plug head came off as expected. So far so good. I expected to see the threaded portion of the plug and since I only drilled as deep as the depth of the plug head, I expected to see the remains of the plug. But what I found was an open hole all the way through. I could see the ring gear teeth. That surprised me. Where was the rest of the plug? Was the threaded portion of the plug hollow? I don't remember it being hollow. (If anyone can confirm whether it's hollow or solid, please let me know. Also, is the magnet in the center of the plug bolt or is the magnet the threaded part. In other words, is the magnet inserted into the bolt? I wish I had a drain plug to look at closely now. If anyone has a picture of one including a picture of the end, I would greatly appreciate it if you could post it. )
I examined the hole with a fiber optic inspection camera. Just a hole all the way through with the ring gear visible. I'm thinking, Uh oh! Did the magnet or the end of the bolt drop into the bevel box? But that didn't even seem possible because it was never turned in fully. (The plug started spinning while screwing it in not much more than finger tight - virtually no torque at all. Looking at the flat at the bottom of the recess where the plug goes in - that the lip on the plug tightens to, I knew the threaded part had to be still screwed in. So an Easy Out (Screw Extractor) was next. Even with very high force, nothing would budge. This was getting frustrating. At that point, I couldn't see any choice but to gradually drill the hole larger, hoping that the threaded part would get thin enough to the point that it could be removed but no luck. It's as if it's welded into the threads which is really weird because it hadn't even been tigthened.
So now I have a dilemma. I can try to thread it and put a short bolt in it to replace the plug but I'm not sure if that will work after all the drilling done already and I have to be careful not to cut through the walls of the case. Another option is to permanenly plug it by tapping it, screwing in a short headless slotted or allen head stud and then filling the recess with JB Weld and blending it with the case. I hate doing anything like that but my options are limited at this point. As far as draining goes with no drain plug, that's no problem. I have a fluid pump that would do that easily. I use it for the front differential on my truck. The only issue is that there won't be a magnet but I change the bevel box gear at every oil change although that doesn't guarantee that metal bits would be sucked out. Any aluminum crap from drilling and threading aren't magnetic anyway but I have a way of cleaning that out with fairly decent confidence.
I have two other options. Buy a used bevel box. There's usually several on eBay going for $500 or so. But who knows how a used one was used and if the owner ever bothered to change the gear oil. That's a risky option.
The last option is to order a new bevel box. I think they're about $2,200 - $2,300 plus tax and shipping. OUCH! But I may end up going tha way in the end. All for a darn stuck drain plug! But delivery would probably be months away, especially with the coronovirus. Even small things I've ordered on Amazon that usually would arrive the same or next day projected to take more than a month for delivery because of the coronovirus so I'm guessing getting a new bevel box might take to well into the summer.
So..... I think I'll first try to tap and plug it. If that doesn't work out, I'll plug and fill it permanently. At least that should get me on the road. I just hope there's no metal (like a magnet!) in the bevel box that I miss when cleaning it out. That would not be good. :-(
Idaho Red Rocket 3
Living Legend
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2008
- Messages
- 5,720
- Location
- Nampa, Idaho USA
- Ride
- 2006 RIII Standard Bagger w/Fairing
The OEM drain plug is a hollow bolt with a magnet inserted into the hollow. It had to go somewhere.
TURBO200R4
stand up straight and grab the world by the a$$
I will try to help with some ideas after i have lunch
in the mean time could u answer some questions
what size (decimal) drill r u using?
if it was spinning how did u drill it
did u use a 10 mm wrench to hold it.
if it was spinning before why it now (wont turn ?)
in the mean time could u answer some questions
what size (decimal) drill r u using?
if it was spinning how did u drill it
did u use a 10 mm wrench to hold it.
if it was spinning before why it now (wont turn ?)
