The auto racing aftermarket has spring suppliers that generally supply springs in three ID sizes, 1.88", 2.0" and 2.56". Heavier springs have larger wire diameters but they are wound to the same ID so that they fit the same hardware. They can be found in lengths varying from 8" to 14" long. Black ABS pipe or fittings or couplers can be cut to make spacers as needed. Southwestspeed.com is one example; Speedway Motors is another. You can buy 1.88" ID springs for $39 a pair.

Make a tool/compressor to remove the springs from your shocks and measure the springs, spring seats and shock body with a good caliper. Then buy what you want and adapt them to fit. At $39 a pair, buy two sets and try them. I have put aftermarket springs on my stock shocks so I know it can be done. (I have 6 sets of shocks and about ten sets of springs that I have used to build and try various sets for my R3. I am a former suspension engineer and can and do take apart or cut shocks apart to get internal components, springs and valves to adapt to others. Why: I enjoy the challenge.)

120 lb/in rate is too soft for the R3 (I tried them). The stock springs on my R3 Classic with the back breaking stock shocks has a 260 lb/in rate. You will discover the shock compression damping is critical. Too much low speed compression damping and even 120 lb/in shocks feel too hard. The damping plays a bigger role in how the ride feels than the spring rate. If you seek softer springs to improve the ride, you will need to make big changes.

Progressive may make good shocks and springs that work well in some applications but they suffer from "if it fits, sell it!" Which means that a shock body (without the coil over spring) that fits a Thruxton may be sold also to an R3 owner but with a different spring and perhaps different rubbers in the eyelet. But the base shock is identical. No way in Hades that the two applications require the same damping. Hence you see the master list of shocks and then a list of springs from which they mix n match to fit most applications. Works well for them but not soo much for the end user.

The R3 has very heavy un-sprung weight compared to most bikes. And she is front heavy. Therefore getting good ride quality from shocks meant for other bikes is difficult.

The issue of "set in" is often debated. Reality is that what works well for one bike and rider's geometry (bike suspension type, combined bike and rider CG location fore/aft and height) and type of riding is not ideal for another. CG height is less important when the bike is at 35 degrees to the ground but even more important fore and aft then when it is straight up. Hitting the brakes transfers weight forward which extends the rear suspension. Too little travel and the back wheel unloads prematurely and the CG rises even higher. Traversing bumps requires suspension travel in both directions. Too little extension travel and the ride gets harsh because the shocks hit full extension and then try to lift the rear wheel off the ground. Of course what goes up gets slammed back down. I use 4" travel shocks with about 30% travel for rebound. My ride height is about the same as stock but the longer shock travel gives me more travel in both directions.

Cruising smoothly and comfortably on the R3 requires very soft mid to high speed compression damping. But without fairly stiff low speed damping, she will wallow. Rebound damping is directly tied to spring rate and mass. Stiffer springs need more of it than soft springs. Too much rebound damping and the bike will "jack down" and each bump in a series of bumps becomes progressively harsher.

Find what you like. Each of us has a different set of criteria as to what we want for ride and handling. Ask the shock builder or supplier the spring rate they will supply. Ask them about the damping curves of the valves they will supply in the shock. If they refuse to tell you or worse tell you it is too complicated to explain, take your money elsewhere. There is way too much smoke blown up people's backsides in the suspension market because there is so little general knowledge about how these systems work and what each part does systemically.
 
@Ishrub Ish,
Gratitude for the chart dope.
Where in the Progressive web site did you find this?
I can find NOTHING about replacement springs anywhere.
Looking for the up to 250 pounds 12.5 inch springs for the 444s . . . chrome if possible
 
The auto racing aftermarket has spring suppliers that generally supply springs in three ID sizes, 1.88", 2.0" and 2.56". Heavier springs have larger wire diameters but they are wound to the same ID so that they fit the same hardware. They can be found in lengths varying from 8" to 14" long. Black ABS pipe or fittings or couplers can be cut to make spacers as needed. Southwestspeed.com is one example; Speedway Motors is another. You can buy 1.88" ID springs for $39 a pair.

Make a tool/compressor to remove the springs from your shocks and measure the springs, spring seats and shock body with a good caliper. Then buy what you want and adapt them to fit. At $39 a pair, buy two sets and try them. I have put aftermarket springs on my stock shocks so I know it can be done. (I have 6 sets of shocks and about ten sets of springs that I have used to build and try various sets for my R3. I am a former suspension engineer and can and do take apart or cut shocks apart to get internal components, springs and valves to adapt to others. Why: I enjoy the challenge.)

120 lb/in rate is too soft for the R3 (I tried them). The stock springs on my R3 Classic with the back breaking stock shocks has a 260 lb/in rate. You will discover the shock compression damping is critical. Too much low speed compression damping and even 120 lb/in shocks feel too hard. The damping plays a bigger role in how the ride feels than the spring rate. If you seek softer springs to improve the ride, you will need to make big changes.

Progressive may make good shocks and springs that work well in some applications but they suffer from "if it fits, sell it!" Which means that a shock body (without the coil over spring) that fits a Thruxton may be sold also to an R3 owner but with a different spring and perhaps different rubbers in the eyelet. But the base shock is identical. No way in Hades that the two applications require the same damping. Hence you see the master list of shocks and then a list of springs from which they mix n match to fit most applications. Works well for them but not soo much for the end user.

The R3 has very heavy un-sprung weight compared to most bikes. And she is front heavy. Therefore getting good ride quality from shocks meant for other bikes is difficult.

The issue of "set in" is often debated. Reality is that what works well for one bike and rider's geometry (bike suspension type, combined bike and rider CG location fore/aft and height) and type of riding is not ideal for another. CG height is less important when the bike is at 35 degrees to the ground but even more important fore and aft then when it is straight up. Hitting the brakes transfers weight forward which extends the rear suspension. Too little travel and the back wheel unloads prematurely and the CG rises even higher. Traversing bumps requires suspension travel in both directions. Too little extension travel and the ride gets harsh because the shocks hit full extension and then try to lift the rear wheel off the ground. Of course what goes up gets slammed back down. I use 4" travel shocks with about 30% travel for rebound. My ride height is about the same as stock but the longer shock travel gives me more travel in both directions.

Cruising smoothly and comfortably on the R3 requires very soft mid to high speed compression damping. But without fairly stiff low speed damping, she will wallow. Rebound damping is directly tied to spring rate and mass. Stiffer springs need more of it than soft springs. Too much rebound damping and the bike will "jack down" and each bump in a series of bumps becomes progressively harsher.

Find what you like. Each of us has a different set of criteria as to what we want for ride and handling. Ask the shock builder or supplier the spring rate they will supply. Ask them about the damping curves of the valves they will supply in the shock. If they refuse to tell you or worse tell you it is too complicated to explain, take your money elsewhere. There is way too much smoke blown up people's backsides in the suspension market because there is so little general knowledge about how these systems work and what each part does systemically.

GREAT STUFF!
Thanks for taking the time to post this! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Happy with my 444s as they got rid of the wallowing (scary pavement gouging) in hard twisties.
However, unseen bumps on high speed roadways take a serious toll on my back.
My Progressive 12.5 with "HD" springs give me 1 inch sag but allow for no additional adjustment to something softer. Reckon to give the "Standard" springs (up to 250 pounds) a try. Now I have to find some . . .
 
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@Ishrub Ish,
Gratitude for the chart dope.
Where in the Progressive web site did you find this?
I can find NOTHING about replacement springs anywhere.
Looking for the up to 250 pounds 12.5 inch springs for the 444s . . . chrome if possible

http://www.progressivesuspension.com/c/tech-info

New version of Specs-And-Tech-Info.pdf
444 pages 22-23

http://www.progressivesuspension.com/assets/files/7100-105-Specs-And-Tech-Info.pdf

If you want the 12.5" Standard springs you need to order these in chrome (see bold)

12.5" Std 444-4209B/C 03-1315-20B/30------125/170 lbs/inch

Ext. Length 12.5"
Comp.* Length 9.53"
Travel 2.97"
Target Ride Length** 11.50"

* Metal to metal (clip installed) ** Eye-to-eye, vehicle loaded - including rider(s)
 
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The R3 has very heavy un-sprung weight compared to most bikes. And she is front heavy. Therefore getting good ride quality from shocks meant for other bikes is difficult.
Same applies to OLD Guzzis. Bevel drives are a swine for setting suspension ime. I am glad to see that my findings concur with your explanations - I'm learning still. I now have two teachers! :thumbsup: - The boss of DMX suspension is also sharing knowledge.

@1olbull - Instead of trying to make a "universal" part fit "more or less" - Maybe a custom shock (like the Gasolina boots) is a better investment. Surprised me how price-worthy the Maxton forks were.
 
GREAT STUFF!
Thanks for taking the time to post this! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Happy with my 444s as they got rid of the wallowing (scary pavement gouging) in hard twisties.
However, unseen bumps on high speed roadways take a serious toll on my back.
My Progressive 12.5 with "HD" springs give me 1 inch sag but allow for no additional adjustment to something softer. Reckon to give the "Standard" springs (up to 250 pounds) a try. Now I have to find some . . .


That is where I am at, It definitely handles better and a more sure ride but those bumps in the road can be killers as there is little to no give when I hit them. My body takes up all the shock! I can't even get 1" of sag with mine. I am going to try to find out more about the 125/170 springs.
 
@Ishrub Ish,
Gratitude for the chart dope.
Where in the Progressive web site did you find this?
I can find NOTHING about replacement springs anywhere.
Looking for the up to 250 pounds 12.5 inch springs for the 444s . . . chrome if possible

Steve this is my second response to your query if you go to Page 6
http://www.progressivesuspension.com/assets/files/7100-105-Specs-And-Tech-Info.pdf
I know it says Progressive Rate Springs For 12/412 Series Street Shocks but these are the same part codes as that specified for the 444s.

This gives more detail about the Std rate 12.5" shocks 444 springs note the springs themselves are not 12.5" as that is the eye to eye measurement not the spring itself.
03-1315-20B/30------125/170 lbs/inch which has the same part # and specs.
Springs below are single springs
Order No. 03-1315-20B/30
Rate lbs/in 125/170
Rate kg/mm 2.23/3.04
Length-In 8.75
Length-mm 222
I.D.- Inch*** 1.85
I.D.- mm*** 47
Notes (Fits) 11.50” & 12.00” in the 12/412 Series Street Shocks but in the 444 Series Street Shocks they are specified for the 12.5" Std rate shock.



upload_2017-9-4_23-15-58.png


Page 31
http://www.progressivesuspension.com/assets/files/7100-105-Specs-And-Tech-Info.pdf
you will find these springs are listed separately for order. Here it appears you can buy a 12" long version of the same spring rate with a VERY SLIGHTLY different code 03-1316-20B/30 so you could cut it down as required I suppose.

upload_2017-9-4_23-10-1.png
 
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Ish,
Nothing listed for their premium 444 shocks???
A customer is supposed to know the 412 has the same springs?
This crap is frustrating!
Looks to me that you have highlighted a spring (03-1315-20B/30) that is for 11.5 and 12 inch shocks and is only 125 - 150 pounds.
Can you tell me where the length of the 444 Standard spring is listed?
What is the part number for that particular spring?
 
Yeah, been trying to tell that they are on pages 22-23 with the whole shock details for ages but Steve for some reason doesn't believe he can order the spring part numbers listed by themselves. I was trying to show him that they are listed separately.

The one you pasted is a HD version for 12.5" shocks but not a Rocket Roadster one.(See my Post #82) But the length there refers to the whole shock eye to eye. Steve was looking for the Standard Duty spring version.


Ish,
Nothing listed for their premium 444 shocks???
A customer is supposed to know the 412 has the same springs?
This crap is frustrating!
Looks to me that you have highlighted a spring (03-1315-20B/30) that is for 11.5 and 12 inch shocks and is only 125 - 170 pounds (Corrected for you).
Can you tell me where the length of the 444 Standard spring is listed?
What is the part number for that particular spring?

The springs are just springs and can be used in various series/models of shocks as @Speedy has commented as well. It is just a case of matching the required length, diameter and rating for the purpose. The 12" long springs (03-1316-20B/30 - 125/170 lbs/in ) on Page 31 are longer than those fitted to the 412 or 444 series shocks so could be possibly cut down to a suitable length as well.

The specific spring for the 412 or 444 series shocks is
Order No. 03-1315-20B/30
Rate lbs/in 125/170
Rate kg/mm 2.23/3.04
SPRING Length-In 8.75
SPRING Length-mm 222
I.D.- Inch*** 1.85
I.D.- mm*** 47
Notes (Fits) 11.50” & 12.00” in the 12/412 Series Street Shocks'

But in the 444 Series Street Shocks they are specified for the 12.5" Std rate shock. Remember the shock length is eye to eye and depending on its configuration could use a longer or shorter spring length to achieve the same eye to eye shock length.

I am now going to give up as I have tried to explain a number of times but do not seem to be getting through.
 
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