Hesitation at 2000 RPM (with Tune ECU questions)

[Jabo75]

Warp, I knew there was something special about you. Been drinking the big mouths since high school. Remember when they looked like hand grenades? Haven't had one in years. I am going to buy a case this weekend and celebrate when I get this TPS sorted out by drinking a few in your honor!

 

[Jabo75]

OK, So here's the deal. When I push my secondary throttle open, the metal tang that interfaces with the TPS does not move. I can grab the tang with my needle nose pliers and move it (with virtually no resistance), but it will move independently of the throttle. In addition, the secondary stepper motor makes a weird chattering sound that only started when I began to have this TPS error.

I tried moving the tang counter-clockwise, it moved about 60-70 degrees from the position it rests in. I then held open the secondary throttle and attached the TPS per the manual. This was the first time that I could attach the TPS as proscribed in the manual (at about 30 degrees counter-clockwise of its final mounting point) then twist it into position to use the mounting bolt. I did not push the butterflies closed simply because I don't have the air intake unmounted. I really want to avoid that if I can, but maybe that's the issue here?

Anyhow, when I turned the key on, the first part of the startup sounded normal (no chattering of the secondary stepper motor), but as soon as I tried to adjust the voltage in TuneECU, the error returned.

Lastly, I used a flat screwdriver the same width as the throttle tang to see if the TPS is at least working. It seems to be working OK. It is spring loaded and returns to position.

Feedback?

 

[warp9.9]

Ok we're starting to get in a area where I have to plead stupid. I am away from my extra throttle body so i can not tell you if the tang is loose or if you have a different problem. I've been working with a friend on his and did not think to ask him if the tab was free. He did note that the secondaries do not shut fully which is why you have to hold it shut to set the voltage to .6 volts. He did note that after setting it and cycling the ignition it read .7 volts until he pushed the secondaries shut again. I'll contact him today to see if he notices anything on his tang. And also grill him about the chattering sound he also mentioned. The manual does not have much information or a breakdown of the throttle bodies or I have not found it yet

 

[Rocket Scientist]

I shall have to plead ignorance. I took my secondary throttle plates out shortly after getting the bike and haven't thought about them since.

 

[Jabo75]

I shall have to plead ignorance. I took my secondary throttle plates out shortly after getting the bike and haven't thought about them since.

I know a lot of people have done this. Last night I ordered the triple K&N set. It was on sale for $100 bucks. I seems to me that I am going to be tearing the stock air box off shortly anyhow, so I decided to add the K&N's and look for a different map once i do. I assume you are a fan of removing the butterflies. Is it hard to do (I'm not assuming anything here after my first F up)?
As I recall, there is not a diagram in the manual showing the primaries or secondaries. Hell, the there are a lot diagrams that you would think should be in the manual that aren't, but I digress....

It appears to me just by looking at the primary and secondary throttle locations that the secondaries are on top of the primaries. If thats the case, is it just a matter of unscrewing the butterflies? Anything (other than dropping screws/nuts into the throttle that I need to know?

Thanks.

 

[Rocket Scientist]

I know a lot of people have done this. Last night I ordered the triple K&N set. It was on sale for $100 bucks. I seems to me that I am going to be tearing the stock air box off shortly anyhow, so I decided to add the K&N's and look for a different map once i do. I assume you are a fan of removing the butterflies. Is it hard to do (I'm not assuming anything here after my first F up)?
As I recall, there is not a diagram in the manual showing the primaries or secondaries. Hell, the there are a lot diagrams that you would think should be in the manual that aren't, but I digress....

It appears to me just by looking at the primary and secondary throttle locations that the secondaries are on top of the primaries. If thats the case, is it just a matter of unscrewing the butterflies? Anything (other than dropping screws/nuts into the throttle that I need to know?

Thanks.

The secondary butterflies are the ones you will see when you remove the intake plumbing. They are at the entrance to the throttle body. They are held in by two screws each. Dropping a screw is not a terrible thing as long as you retrieve it before opening the throttle. You will still have to get the secondary tps set, or it will keep throwing a code. You will have to do that before removing the plates so you can tell where the "closed" position is.

 

[Jabo75]

You will have to do that before removing the plates so you can tell where the "closed" position is.

Check. That makes a lot of sense.

Update, Today I tried reinstalling the secondary TPS (minus the butterfly step since I don't want to take my airbox off until the K&N's come).

1) I clear the error code with TuneECU
2) I have to manually turn the throttle tang open with my fingers
3) Follow the rest of the steps in the manual for installation (minus the butterfly step)
4) I did NOT do the secondary TPS check in Tune ECU.

Now the weird part, I get the normal sounds from the stepper motors during startup, the bike is a ton more responsive when I open the secondary throttle (not perfect, but way better) and the CEL stays on. It seems like the "check secondary TPS" step in TuneECU is sending some odd signal to the secondary stepper motor that results in the chattering in the stepper motor I am hearing. it seems once I initiate the test, the stepper motor keeps doing the chattering, even if I clear the error code. Until, of course I repeat the above steps.

 

[TURBO200R4]

just an opinion
i think that u have installed the secondary tps wrong so this means u probably messed something up.
installed wrong it might take out secondary tps or the secondary motor (gears).
IDK has manuals listed for the early rocket manuals posted to down load.
i have been looking at the tps on page 11.129 thru 11.132. now i think that the primary tps shows a little discrepancy in the drawing the way it tell u how to install the tps.
if u have a screw up then it is hard to tell what is wrong. now this may be a little hard on u but u will have to start listening to us and doing what we say in order for us to help u.
1 pull the air intake system off so u can see the secondary butterfly's.
2 pull the secondary tps. put a screw driver in it and gently try to turn it. is it spring loaded and does it return to stop position on its own? is it the one with the long wire (correct secondary)?
primary and secondary tps will not interchange.
if the answers to #2 is yes open secondarys wide open then turn the tab (that engages the tps) counter clockwise (gently) until it stops. then does the secondary tps look like it would fit like in warps post #36.
the bad news is that the secondary motor is not sold by its self u have to by throttle body asy or find a used one.

 

[TURBO200R4]

i have reread a couple of your posts and i think that maybe u r ok if u just hold the throttle plate closed and set the tps to proper value. .6 volts
after u do this check it by turning ign on and observing the throttle plates as the computer opens them to 100% while it checks the sec. tps. circuit.

 

[Jabo75]

just an opinion
i think that u have installed the secondary tps wrong so this means u probably messed something up.
installed wrong it might take out secondary tps or the secondary motor (gears).
IDK has manuals listed for the early rocket manuals posted to down load.
i have been looking at the tps on page 11.129 thru 11.132. now i think that the primary tps shows a little discrepancy in the drawing the way it tell u how to install the tps.
if u have a screw up then it is hard to tell what is wrong. now this may be a little hard on u but u will have to start listening to us and doing what we say in order for us to help u.
1 pull the air intake system off so u can see the secondary butterfly's.
2 pull the secondary tps. put a screw driver in it and gently try to turn it. is it spring loaded and does it return to stop position on its own? is it the one with the long wire (correct secondary)?
primary and secondary tps will not interchange.
if the answers to #2 is yes open secondarys wide open then turn the tab (that engages the tps) counter clockwise (gently) until it stops. then does the secondary tps look like it would fit like in warps post #36.
the bad news is that the secondary motor is not sold by its self u have to by throttle body asy or find a used one.

I know I screwed up.
I had read the instructions (quickly) and transposed the TPS units. The fact is, if using the wrong unit will create a catastrophic failure, you'd think Triumph wouldn't make the connectors the same for both units. I know that's asking a lot but....

As for #2 above, I checked the spring return on the TPS and it does in fact work.

i have reread a couple of your posts and i think that maybe u r ok if u just hold the throttle plate closed and set the tps to proper value. .6 volts
after u do this check it by turning ign on and observing the throttle plates as the computer opens them to 100% while it checks the sec. tps. circuit.

There is no way to check the voltage in TuneECU without turning the key to the "on" position. As you know, once you do that, the steppers motors go through their sequence. What seems to be happening is that the secondary stepper motor closes the secondary throttle, then keeps chattering at the closed position, as if it wants to keep moving past the closed position. I have tried turning the key to "on" with the throttle plates in the closed position as well as having them in the open position, (both after clearing the error codes), but neither seems to work.

The voltage seems to be in the 4.15 volt range (as opposed to the .6 volts recommended).