barbagris
Mad Scientist
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2010
- Messages
- 12,988
- Location
- On the verge of insanity
- Ride
- 1979 Guzzi V1000G5 - 2018 KTM 790 Duke
The Whole ECU locking thing is still (imo) a bit of a grey zone. I mean it's not LEGALLY but technically there are still some hidden bits and bobs.
CLOSED LOOP AFR is a reality. How it is implemented may also be different. My little KTM is only Euro4 but runs pretty much as a Euro5 would. FULL CLOSED LOOP. But annoyingly still narrow band.
The KTM by design runs VERY LEAN and the O2 circuit keeps it enriched. It has a Bosch ECU - other mfrs may implement differently.
With the Bosch ECU - A PCV can be fitted but it will cause errors if the OEM O2 sensors are replaced, removed, bridged (dongle) with anything different. This is due to HOW the AFR sensors work. It is not a simple resistance method as per 2300-R3's. The signals are pulses from the ECU and the round trip is timed not merely measured. So you have to leave the O2 sensors in. Even changing the wire length will affect the results. Any fuel remapping via the PCV will be overridden by the stock ECU.
There are some "super dooper" dongles in R&D that operate differently between the O2 sensor and ECU - but so far none seems to work well with Bosch ECU's. They may however work with others. This I do not know. The only succes I have seen with a PCV on Euro5 is with an IGNITION version and just playing with timing. AFR stays stock.
There is room in the legal side for minor re-flashing - BUT always referent on base ECU flash. So if a new base map has to be loaded (because there are upgrades) then any second level flash is destroyed. So for example if you had an OEM reflash for TRIUMPH TORS (assuming they appear) then if Triumph upgraded the base I assume they will upgrade the reflash. And aftermarket tuner flash - you have to go back to the tuner.
I would NOT buy a 2500-R3 assuming that TuneECU will ever work. I would not assume there will be a PCV. There are tools for reflashing about - But they are all EXPENSIVE. I mean 4-5 thousand Euros expensive.
There will always be options for TRACK bikes - Ask @Claviger - and I am sure that for HIGH VOLUME SALES models some solutions will appear.
CLOSED LOOP AFR is a reality. How it is implemented may also be different. My little KTM is only Euro4 but runs pretty much as a Euro5 would. FULL CLOSED LOOP. But annoyingly still narrow band.
The KTM by design runs VERY LEAN and the O2 circuit keeps it enriched. It has a Bosch ECU - other mfrs may implement differently.
With the Bosch ECU - A PCV can be fitted but it will cause errors if the OEM O2 sensors are replaced, removed, bridged (dongle) with anything different. This is due to HOW the AFR sensors work. It is not a simple resistance method as per 2300-R3's. The signals are pulses from the ECU and the round trip is timed not merely measured. So you have to leave the O2 sensors in. Even changing the wire length will affect the results. Any fuel remapping via the PCV will be overridden by the stock ECU.
There are some "super dooper" dongles in R&D that operate differently between the O2 sensor and ECU - but so far none seems to work well with Bosch ECU's. They may however work with others. This I do not know. The only succes I have seen with a PCV on Euro5 is with an IGNITION version and just playing with timing. AFR stays stock.
There is room in the legal side for minor re-flashing - BUT always referent on base ECU flash. So if a new base map has to be loaded (because there are upgrades) then any second level flash is destroyed. So for example if you had an OEM reflash for TRIUMPH TORS (assuming they appear) then if Triumph upgraded the base I assume they will upgrade the reflash. And aftermarket tuner flash - you have to go back to the tuner.
I would NOT buy a 2500-R3 assuming that TuneECU will ever work. I would not assume there will be a PCV. There are tools for reflashing about - But they are all EXPENSIVE. I mean 4-5 thousand Euros expensive.
There will always be options for TRACK bikes - Ask @Claviger - and I am sure that for HIGH VOLUME SALES models some solutions will appear.
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