2011 R3T Completely Dead

TURBO200R4 said:

a man that knows how to use a voltmeter could find that problem in 30 seconds.

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Does that mean you believe the mechanic didn't find the problem when he said the problem was an extremely loose ground? If it does mean that, please give a complete explanation for your opinion so I can explain to him why he's a dumba*s.

dobro said:

Does that mean you believe the mechanic didn't find the problem when he said the problem was an extremely loose ground? If it does mean that, please give a complete explanation for your opinion so I can explain to him why he's a dumba*s.

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I do not explain things very well that is why i remain silent at times and let those that can (like DEcosse) explain.
i believe the mechanic found the problem and tightening the cable should fix your problem.
on any vehicle there is always a chance of having another problem.
when checking a problem like yours you start checking at the battery with your voltmeter and try to do a wiggle test to confirm that you have a good voltage. that is what the mechanic did. a thumbs up for that mechanic.

TURBO200R4 said:

I do not explain things very well that is why i remain silent at times and let those that can (like DEcosse) explain.
i believe the mechanic found the problem and tightening the cable should fix your problem.
on any vehicle there is always a chance of having another problem.
when checking a problem like yours you start checking at the battery with your voltmeter and try to do a wiggle test to confirm that you have a good voltage. that is what the mechanic did. a thumbs up for that mechanic.

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Thanks for taking the time to help me.

TURBO200R4 said:

... i believe the mechanic found the problem and tightening the cable should fix your problem .....

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Sorry, as I said earlier, have to disagree that is causing the described problem.
It may well have caused starting issues, but that has nothing to do with the fundamental issue

The engine ground is irrelevant to the headlight circuit, or even the ignition circuit.
The ground for these circuits comes directly off the battery negative terminal*

You should be able to disconnect that engine ground completely (try it & see!) and should make no difference to your lighting/ignition operation
Of course it will not start ............


*caveat - unless there is something different about the Touring Grounding Scheme of which I'm not cognizant

DEcosse said:

Sorry, as I said earlier, have to disagree that is causing the described problem.
It may well have caused starting issues, but that has nothing to do with the fundamental issue

The engine ground is irrelevant to the headlight circuit, or even the ignition circuit.
The ground for these circuits comes directly off the battery negative terminal*

You should be able to disconnect that engine ground completely (try it & see!) and should make no difference to your lighting/ignition operation
Of course it will not start ............


*caveat - unless there is something different about the Touring Grounding Scheme of which I'm not cognizant

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Thanks, Decosse. If the loose ground was the ground from the neg battery cable to the frame, as opposed to the engine, could it cause the problems I described? It's very important to me that it be fixed now so I don't get stuck in the middle of nowhere. Will you suggest a specific question I can ask the mechanic to learn if fixing an extrememly loose ground did fix the problem.

There is no ground to the frame - the grounding system comes directly off the battery negative cable into its own wiring distribution system (all the system grounds are interconnected through different branches, kinda like a bunch of river tributaries coming together to one point)
There should be a split off the main battery connection however to a connector for that main system ground 'bus' with the heavier cable going down to the engine
Again, not completely intimate with the Touring differences so may have slight difference

I see on the Touring schemtic there is an intermediate connector on the POSITIVE cable which you should take a look at also .

if it was mine before i left to go home i would use the key and turn the ign switch on and off about 20 times (i think you said something about it acting a little different) and make sure it is normal every time. also with the ign switch on i would do a wiggle test on the wires coming out of ign switch. sorry i am thinking about mine i don't know if you can even get to the wiring on the touring. be cautious in taking off around tight corners just in case you have another prob.

DEcosse said:

There is no ground to the frame - the grounding system comes directly off the battery negative cable into its own wiring distribution system (all the system grounds are interconnected through different branches, kinda like a bunch of river tributaries coming together to one point)
There should be a split off the main battery connection however to a connector for that main system ground 'bus' with the heavier cable going down to the engine
Again, not completely intimate with the Touring differences so may have slight difference

I see on the Touring schemtic there is an intermediate connector on the POSITIVE cable which you should take a look at also .

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First of all, I know you disagree with the additional ground wire I added to the frame on my R3T. This in spite of the fact that the manual make two specific references to frame grounding. With that said, I do not believe there is a secondary ground wire that comes off the ground cable that is attached to the negative terminal of the battery. I know the schematic indicates this, but I don't recall that being the case. If I were home, I would pull my seat and check this out for you to try and verify this for sure. I am not disagreeing with you DEcosse, but I do not recall noticing that when I was working on my bike. If this is still in question tomorrow when I get home I will pull the seat and check it out.

Bedifferent said:

First of all, I know you disagree with additional ground wire I added to the frame on my R3T. This in spite of the fact that the manual make two specific references to frame grounding....

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We've been through this before - There is NOTHING on the bike's electrical system that connects electrically to the frame
What YOU are doing is a 'short-cut' to improve your ENGINE grounding, it does absolutely zero for any other electrical component.
Engine ground is predominantly for the starter, spark plugs and the Oil Pressure and Neutral lights - everything else reports via the wiring system to the battery negative
What you are doing, as opposed to directly improving the ground to the engine directly, is to connect a short wire to the frame, then have the frame connection to the engine complete that circuit.
That means painted surfaces, dissimilar metals etc come into play. Do you notice this? Most likely not, just not good practice - especially when its just as easy to connect directly to the engine since having the frame itself being grounded is completely irrelevant
Without that new frame ground, standard system, there is ZERO current that flows through the frame, to get to the engine ground to return to the battery.

As for the comment in the manual - I believe you are referring to the GENERIC section (who knows how many eons ago that std claptrap was first penned) on page 1:14 that makes that reference to frame; I invite you to please enlighten/educate me (sincerely, not sarcastic) to any system element that connects electrically to the frame. That statement has no basis in regard to what is actually ON the Rocket (or frankly any other modern Triumph)

This is image of ground cable I found on another R3 site discussing the ground cable mod:
The big diameter is battery negative to engine; the smaller is to the negative distribution system
This on a standard - again, not sure if that is the same for the Touring
But for sure, however the main scheme connects at the battery end (whether directly crimped into lug, separate lug or like this) the engine ground end is irrelevant




Parts Fiche shows ground cable (item41) to at least appear to be same as per above - also same part number for R3 Classic/Roadster & Touring

DEcosse said:

We've been through this before - There is NOTHING on the bike's electrical system that connects electrically to the frame
What YOU are doing is a 'short-cut' to improve your ENGINE grounding, it does absolutely zero for any other electrical component.
Engine ground is predominantly for the starter, spark plugs and the Oil Pressure and Neutral lights - everything else reports via the wiring system to the battery negative
What you are doing, as opposed to directly improving the ground to the engine directly, is to connect a short wire to the frame, then have the frame connection to the engine complete that circuit.
That means painted surfaces, dissimilar metals etc come into play. Do you notice this? Most likely not, just not good practice - especially when its just as easy to connect directly to the engine since having the frame itself being grounded is completely irrelevant
Without that new frame ground, standard system, there is ZERO current that flows through the frame, to get to the engine ground to return to the battery.

As for the comment in the manual - I believe you are referring to the GENERIC section (who knows how many eons ago that std claptrap was first penned) on page 1:14 that makes that reference to frame; I invite you to please enlighten/educate me (sincerely, not sarcastic) to any system element that connects electrically to the frame. That statement has no basis in regard to what is actually ON the Rocket (or frankly any other modern Triumph)

This is image of ground cable I found on another R3 site discussing the ground cable mod:
The big diameter is battery negative to engine; the smaller is to the negative distribution system
This on a standard - again, not sure if that is the same for the Touring
But for sure, however the main scheme connects at the battery end (whether directly crimped into lug, separate lug or like this) the engine ground end is irrelevant

Click to expand...

Decosse, I see a neg cable for the 2011 R3T in a parts catalog and it looks just like the one in your photo. So the ignition switch and ALL lights are grounded through the small branch on that neg cable? If the loose connection was at that small branch instead of at the engine ground could it have caused the problems I described? I keep hanging on to the ground somehow being a cause because the mechanic is trustworthy smart and very experienced on metrics as well as Harleys. Most important to me, his boss who is a friend of mine and smarter than him, accepted that the problem was the ground after the mechanic described how loose it was. I want to think that the problem here is my interpretation of the mechanic's description and I need to be sure either way when I talk to him again tomorrow.