Ishrub
That's my name ....built like a truck
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Ishrub
That's my name ....built like a truck
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sonny
Living Legend
I weigh 245 LBS running the 12.5 HD 444's (444-4233B) No problems. After about 2,500 miles i had to readjust the shocks back to the 11.5 inches while sitting on the bike. Since then they have performed well.
@oldbull, Progressive lists rider weights when referencing standard and heavy duty. Springs, on the other hand, are rated by pounds per inch to compress them. The Progressive spring chart uses spring rate (lbs/in) which has nothing to do with rider weight. My Chevy Impala for example has spring rates that are less than 200 lb/in but the springs on it are very long and are installed with lots of preload.
I think you are transposing rider weight and spring rates which may be why the charts are confusing. Don't feel bad. Progressive calls the same spring rates (same **** spring) on different length shocks heavy duty in some applications and standard in others. Partly because the shocks may have a different leverage ratio in some applications but mostly because they take the heaviest spring that will fit and call it "Heavy Duty" even if it is softer than other "Heavy Duty" applications. A 13.5" shock for the R3 from Progressive with HD spring has a different rate than the 12.5" HD shocks. Go figure! (If it fits, ship it.)
I think you are transposing rider weight and spring rates which may be why the charts are confusing. Don't feel bad. Progressive calls the same spring rates (same **** spring) on different length shocks heavy duty in some applications and standard in others. Partly because the shocks may have a different leverage ratio in some applications but mostly because they take the heaviest spring that will fit and call it "Heavy Duty" even if it is softer than other "Heavy Duty" applications. A 13.5" shock for the R3 from Progressive with HD spring has a different rate than the 12.5" HD shocks. Go figure! (If it fits, ship it.)
sonny
Living Legend
That is why I went with the 12.5 vice the 13. A lot of folks recommend the longer shock but after checking into it found out it was really not the same animal. 
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Ishrub
That's my name ....built like a truck
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The Rocket Progressive listings only go to a 13" which is .5" over stock.That is why I went with the 12.5 vice the 13.5 A lot of folks recommend the longer shock but after checking into it found out it was really not the same animal.
sonny
Living Legend
Fixed your right my goof. Stayed with the 12.5 and bike handles great. Much improvement over stock shocks. Looks better too.
1olbull
Riding Motor Since 1950
Thank you!
I do understand the difference, tis their unconnected, NO cross reference of their rider weight and spring rates that pisses me off.
Good shockie, but BS data.
Guess I shall have to just buy another set of 444 in order to find out.
Zonechamp
Supercharged
Rider weight and load aside, Speedy said he measured the stock spring rate at 260lbs. If the standard 12" shock spring rate is 250lbs, they are almost the same. So unless you are bottoming out a lot on the stock shocks, the HD's seem like they would be too stiff riding alone. My point is I am heavy an even 2 up I don't bottom out the factory suspension. I would be worried that buying the HD version would make for a stiff ride.
Ishrub
That's my name ....built like a truck
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They are not the same at all, you are confusing the issue exactly as Speedy suggested some may.
1/ Stock Roadster shock length is 12.5" not 12" and shorter shocks use heavier rate springs to support the same rider and bike weight and in the process provide a harsher ride.
2/ Progressive Suspension brand shocks for the Rocket in the 444 series are available as 11.5", 12.0", 12.5" and 13.0" length eye to eye and come in supposedly Standard and Heavy Duty rates.
3/ Speedy stated "The stock springs on my R3 Classic with the back breaking stock shocks has a 260 lb/in rate."
4/ These stock R3 Classic shocks (possibly only 12" eye to eye shock length - would need confirmation) used single rate springs, not the progressively dual rated springs found in the Progressive Suspension brand shocks.
5/ The 260lb/in is the spring's ability to absorb 260lb per inch of spring length travel in compression.
Nothing to do with rider weight or even combined rider and bike weight. With two shocks the combined suspension movement is supporting 520lb per linear inch of suspension movement as measured at the shock, not the wheels axle, which is more, as the shocks are mounted further up the the swing arm and closer to the pivot point.
6/ The actual spring length is not the R3 Classic shock's eye to eye 12" length but probably just 8.5" or there about.
7/ The longer eye to eye shock length versions, 12.5" or 13" with Standard or Heavy Duty rates are BOTH likely to provide a MUCH more compliant and comfortable ride than short 11.5" or 12" eye to eye length shock with the Standard spring rates required to provide support over a MUCH shorter available spring travel.
8/ As Speedy said rebound and deflection damper valve settings significantly effect the handling and feel of any shock and greatly effect their overall performance for a particularly rider/passenger and luggage load.
9/ It is the skilled matching of damper valving as it effects oil flow within the shock body that controls the spring itself.
10/ Any rider will NEVER optimise their bike's ride and handling until they understand and apply the principles of suspension. 95% of riders NEVER do.
1/ Stock Roadster shock length is 12.5" not 12" and shorter shocks use heavier rate springs to support the same rider and bike weight and in the process provide a harsher ride.
2/ Progressive Suspension brand shocks for the Rocket in the 444 series are available as 11.5", 12.0", 12.5" and 13.0" length eye to eye and come in supposedly Standard and Heavy Duty rates.
3/ Speedy stated "The stock springs on my R3 Classic with the back breaking stock shocks has a 260 lb/in rate."
4/ These stock R3 Classic shocks (possibly only 12" eye to eye shock length - would need confirmation) used single rate springs, not the progressively dual rated springs found in the Progressive Suspension brand shocks.
5/ The 260lb/in is the spring's ability to absorb 260lb per inch of spring length travel in compression.
Nothing to do with rider weight or even combined rider and bike weight. With two shocks the combined suspension movement is supporting 520lb per linear inch of suspension movement as measured at the shock, not the wheels axle, which is more, as the shocks are mounted further up the the swing arm and closer to the pivot point.
6/ The actual spring length is not the R3 Classic shock's eye to eye 12" length but probably just 8.5" or there about.
7/ The longer eye to eye shock length versions, 12.5" or 13" with Standard or Heavy Duty rates are BOTH likely to provide a MUCH more compliant and comfortable ride than short 11.5" or 12" eye to eye length shock with the Standard spring rates required to provide support over a MUCH shorter available spring travel.
8/ As Speedy said rebound and deflection damper valve settings significantly effect the handling and feel of any shock and greatly effect their overall performance for a particularly rider/passenger and luggage load.
9/ It is the skilled matching of damper valving as it effects oil flow within the shock body that controls the spring itself.
10/ Any rider will NEVER optimise their bike's ride and handling until they understand and apply the principles of suspension. 95% of riders NEVER do.
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