Removing Secondary Butterfliesin

[TURBO200R4]

If you want it to wheelie like a MF'R take them out ! If you wait for the computer to open them there is still a lag I didn't like. Mine have been removed for 5 years and 40,000 miles.

differential ?

 

[1olbull]

My R3R VIN sequence is 531600.
I have read this thread in its entirety -twice.
It's not clear to me and I'd like to know:
IF the secondaries are set at 100% in Tune ECU, does removing them anyway create any improvement?

 

[cardinal93]

@1olbull only in response time

 

[1olbull]

@1olbull only in response time

With that understood, I must now ask if there is ANY disadvantage in removing the secondaries?

 

[cardinal93]

None I'm aware of as long as your tune is adjusted and you don't drop the screws down the throttle bodies when you take them out
And maybe your fuel consumption though I'd think that would be either way you go; electronically opened or physically removed+electronically opened

 

[TURBO200R4]

My R3R VIN sequence is 531600.
I have read this thread in its entirety -twice.
It's not clear to me and I'd like to know:
IF the secondaries are set at 100% in Tune ECU, does removing them anyway create any improvement?

i would think that if there are set to 100% then there would be no need to take them out as soon as you put it in gear they are at 100%.
i set mine to 100% above 3000 rpm so if i got after mine it probably would not pull wheelies however (i have not got after in low in a long time) if i am running mine as soon as i hit 3000rpm they are going to stay at 100% all the thru 5th gear because it will never go below 3000 rpm.

 

[TURBO200R4]

With that understood, I must now ask if there is ANY disadvantage in removing the secondaries?

i would think that triumph would not spend the extra money to put them in there if there was not a benefit to them. one benefit was to curb the power (save con component wear and keep ******s from killing them self's) i think that the other benefit was to make turbulence to the air to better mix the gas. IMHO

did they take them out when they derestricted the late roadsters?

 

[Bedifferent]

I have one of those gig pro thingies on the Rocket I just bought. I will have to find some instructions to see if it is set up for just gear indications or if the atre is active. Hopefully not. Now as a gear indicator its ok and only reads when the clutch is not pulled in so sometimes it takes a bit to tell you what gear your in. All and all its a bout as useful as a knt full of cold water !!! ( I would say crushed ice but then in theory you can stuff a tall boy in one and bam they are useful)

Ok...I'm going to have to chime in on this. Now keep in mind I have a 2013 touring and to my knowledge the 1st - 3rd restrictions were only removed starting in 2012 on the roadster only. I can't recall the post, but the link it contained made it quite clear the restriction removal had taken place for the late model roadsters.

I installed the GIPro-ATRE on my rocket touring this past winter and have just recently had a chance to try it out. Properly setup, there is absolutely no lag whatsoever in my gears showing up properly on the display. Furthermore, I was not overly impressed with the performance of second and third gear compared to how my Valkyrie used to respond in second and third gear. That was prior to starting out by trying setting 2 on the GIPro. I have to say there is a big difference now in the way my bike performs. The bike actually move like a rocket now and as far as I can tell the GIPro-ATRE does exactly what it says it is suppose to do..... Fooling the ECU into thinking you're in 4th or 5th without the 1-3 restrictions. What a difference! When I get a little more warm weather I will try settings 3 and 4. For the time being, it does all I hoped it would do. The bike is now awake. Anyone who says it doesn't work, at least on the touring model, doesn't know what they are talking about. By the way, the only reason I haven't messed with setting 3 is.... most people have said 2 works great and they thought they felt a little surging with 3.

 

[dougl]

There's two issues, timing and restriction of the secondaries. Timing has been retarded in the lower gears since the first R3's came out. The idea developed by riders is that this was done to restrict power. I'm skeptical. Correct timing is necessary for efficient combustion. Timing needs to be retarded at slower engine speed. I don't see why Triumph would choose timing to restrict power when it can easily be restricted with fueling. I would only be convinced by dyno runs in 1st or 2nd on any R3 done with both the advanced and retarded timing tables in those gears. On the other hand, Wayne MacDonald who invented Tuneboy did the first custom tunes for the R3 for Staintune and tor exhausts. He copied the high gear ignition tables into the lower gear tables. He knows what he's doing. However, the big difference in his custom tunes for the aftermarket exhausts was in the fueling. He also made a tune for triple filters and tors where he got the best power by retarding the timing in certain places. Wayne Tripp has said that unless you're a serious tuner, like him, you shouldn't mess with the timing. I agree.

As for secondaries, let's say you set them to be open 100% in every gear. When the bike is in neutral, they close. When you put it in gear, they open. So there's no lag in response. Besides, if you're racing, you would dump it at at least 3000 rpm where the peak torque is. My concern with taking them out is that at idle, the plates close. If you take them out, would it affect the idle? Since a lot of people have removed them with no apparent ill affects on the idle, the answer seems to be no. I've seen arguments that leaving the bar that the plates screw to would mess up the flow. Again, I'd like to see whether this or having the vertical plates in there has a measurable effect on power, as shown in a dyno test.

 

[barbagris]

Secondaries - Somewhere I read that it's better to leave them 100% open than remove them - UNLESS you also remove the bar they pivot on.