New Riken Raptor 225 55R 16

[xhdskip]

Art,
I wasn't getting all worked up.
Facts then, not opinion or bias.
PROS:
FACT: car tires are cheaper.
FACT: car tires get FAR better mileage.
FACT: car tires handle better in wet conditions,
because they're designed NOT to hydroplane on wet surfaces.
FACT: car tires handle better under extreem braking,
more contact patch on the road surface at any given time,
therefore having a better ability to stop instead of locking up and skidding uncontrollably.
FACT: car tires handle better on gravel roads,
which I ride every day.
Thats the only advantages I can think of at the moment.
CONS:...................
supposed loss of HP

 

[IMFASTTOO]

Facts

Art,
I wasn't getting all worked up.
Facts then, not opinion or bias.
PROS:
FACT: car tires are cheaper.
FACT: car tires get FAR better mileage.
FACT: car tires handle better in wet conditions,
because they're designed NOT to hydroplane on wet surfaces.
FACT: car tires handle better under extreem braking,
more contact patch on the road surface at any given time,
therefore having a better ability to stop instead of locking up and skidding uncontrollably.
FACT: car tires handle better on gravel roads,
which I ride every day.
Thats the only advantages I can think of at the moment.
CONS:...................
supposed loss of HP

GOOD STUFF SKIP YES CTS are cheaper and last longer and I think thats the appeal AS far as handling better in the wet ???? WE dont ride in the rain and if I get caught i look for a place to stop and gravel roads again a rare occurance for me but if your confronted with those conditions maybe an all terrain tire would suit you better AS far as braking is concerned i do 90% of the braking with the front wheel so ??? I HOPE to get some comparisons for HP loss soon

 

[xhdskip]

I don't doubt your "theory" on the loss of HP Art.
Well, not much anyway.
Considering the car tire is bigger with more surface to have to spin
compared to the smaller footprint of the metz.
That makes sense.
I would like to see the HP numbers though.
As far as riding in the rain,
it's inevitable for me, I ride, I don't pull over.
I live on a dirt/gravel road with a hill at the end before I can taste the blacktop,
so if I want to ride, I deal with the circumstances.
as far as braking goes,
I wouldn't want to use 90% front brake on a gravel road,
I learnt better on a dirt bike 3 or 4 decades ago.
Besides, I only use the front about 70% on a good road,
But thats just me,
I guess IF I only rode on ideal surfaces in track conditions with perfect weather,
maybe a metz would be ok,
but for me,
in my riding conditions,
I'll take the car tire.
so how about it,
got FACTS on why the metz is better?

 

[IMFASTTOO]

Ruff roads

I don't doubt your "theory" on the loss of HP Art.
Well, not much anyway.
Considering the car tire is bigger with more surface to have to spin
compared to the smaller footprint of the metz.
That makes sense.
I would like to see the HP numbers though.
As far as riding in the rain,
it's inevitable for me, I ride, I don't pull over.
I live on a dirt/gravel road with a hill at the end before I can taste the blacktop,
so if I want to ride, I deal with the circumstances.
But thats just me.
I guess IF I only rode on ideal surfaces in track conditions with perfect weather,
maybe a metz would be ok,
but for me,
in my riding conditions,
I'll take the car tire.

HEY SKIP I see what your saying about your situation MAKES SENSE yep Im a fair weather rider only but we have a varity of roads lots of nice twistys and of course and the LIGHT TO LIGHT drag race program but very little of the dirt and gravel stuff so the MT works the best for me

 

[xhdskip]

so you gonna borrow a car tire to do the comparrison on your new roadster?
I'd sure volunteer mine if I was closer.
Can't wait to see actual numbers ya know?
Take care Art.
Bet you're on pins and needles waittin on that delivery truck ain't ya?
Don't forget to post pics once it arrives.
You know we'll let you know exactly what you need to do,
hey, we're all full of advice right?
Don't be suprised if somebody suggests a car tire
Congrats by the way.

 

[IMFASTTOO]

New tires

so you gonna borrow a car tire to do the comparrison on your new roadster?
I'd sure volunteer mine if I was closer.
Can't wait to see actual numbers ya know?
Take care Art.
Bet you're on pins and needles waittin on that delivery truck ain't ya?
Don't forget to post pics once it arrives.
You know we'll let you know exactly what you need to do,
hey, we're all full of advice right?
Don't be suprised if somebody suggests a car tire
Congrats by the way.

THANKS SKIP SCOTT thinks i should put a TSL super swamper that has tread on the sidewalls on the back and a COKER whitewall on the front

 

[TriumPhil]

Art, I think that the drugs that Scott's been taking are starting to rub off on you!

cktire made the most fair and balanced post on this thread, so far. This is all about choice, fellas!

I chose to run a CT from the get go, because I felt that it was safer on the R3 than the Metz. I am riding on a Toyo Proxes T1R, 225/55 16, a Z-rated (very high speed) tire. The recommended PSI is 38 lbs, however I dropped it down to 32 lbs after experiencing a very heavy-feeling and unresponsive tire (for making lane changes on the superslab, particularly). I love the tire and although it handles acceptably (to me) different than a MT in the twisties, (requiring more rider input and countersteer and responding noticeably slower than a MT under certain conditions) I found the differences from the MT, as well as the trade-offs involved to be more than worth my while. That is, until the day I rode the twisties very hard with Art (IFT).

When we were done with a 50-90+ mph run on some beautiful backroad twisties, he pointed to the Toyo and said "look at that". What I saw made my jaw drop! The tire was significantly scuffed about an inch and a half up on the sidewall... well away from any tread on the outside of the tire and from the belts inside the tire. In other words, it appeared that I was riding on a completely unreinforced part of the tire.

Now, I haven't yet swapped the tire out, as I am still evaluating the validity of what my eyes told me. When I ride "normally", I do not think that I am getting onto the sidewall. I really like this tire, how it handles and brakes in general and its amzing traction and grip overall - it is a sticky sucker! The thing is, I do occasionally enjoy riding "balls to the wall" and if I do confirm that that is putting me on the sidewall, I will quit this CT, as there is nothing that I know of that can justify taking that level of risk when I'm out to have a little fun and not looking to be the first to experience a tire failure of this sort.

What confuses me somewhat are some pics that were posted on the Darkside subforum over on the .com site by a fella' named Rocket-UK. He showed his Proxes with about 20K miles on it with the upper half of the TOYO logo on the sidewall worn away from prolonged pounding in the twisties. There are some other guys over in Great Britain, whom I respect, that swear that they ride the same CT as I do and that they blast the twisties hard,as well, so instaed of swapping the tire out at 25-30K miles they take 'em off at between 15-20K miles. Some of these guys are on their 3rd and 4th CTs with no sad tales to tell, so, to say the least, this has gotten to be a bit confusing to me.

Art is a performance oriented rider and has been for the better part of his life. He's been riding for better than 50 years and has been a master motorcycle mechanic, a dealer and a racer for some good pecentage of those years. He has witnessed more than a few riders take their own lives while on two wheels by riding on the edge of or well above their abilities, so part of his relentless diatribe is out of concern for rider safety. The other part of his steadfast assault on CTs is due to his near lifelong devotion to pulling max performance from motorcycles. Some of the points he makes are quite valid, but may not have much application for those who don't care about the compromises in performance that a CT can present. As for a 20 HP loss by merely swapping the MT for a CT, my butt dyno says no way! 5-10 HP loss on an average R3, maybe, but not 20 HP. Perhaps you lose that much (20 ponies) on a high performance Rocket III that is tuned and set up in every other respect for max speed and performance. BTW, and for the record, Metzeler's own site's specs puts our stock rear tire at 20.07 pounds. The Toyo site states that the tire I run weighs 24.7 pounds.

If or when I confirm this bike's capability to lean over sufficiently to ride on and therefore wear down the sidewall, then it's, regretably, back to the crappy Metz for me. What anyone else does is their own business and is a matter of personal preference or choice. Whatever anyone else chooses to do, I hope that they do it in total safety and with pure pleasure!

 

[warp9.9]

I am confused Phil as you stated you did not buy the bike brand new. If I remember right you stated it had around 3k on the bike and the mezt was like new when you had it cut off. So forst I don't see how you even had enough time to judge the mezt let alone scrub the smooth finish of the full arc of the tire so it would grip the road typically mc tires are slick until you scrub the rubber a little. what is really nuts is you might as well got your mpney worth out of the mc tire and then tried the ct if you wanted at least by then you would have had some fair miles on the metz and scrubbed it offf so it could grip. next time just put some cash in an envelope and send it to me! I will put it to good use. Oh and from what Art said you guys weren't even going hard enough to take the tits off his tire maybe your speedo is off more then normal. Skip is right the 225/55r16 cart tire is taller then the 240/50/r16 mc tire by .100" unless its under inflated then I guess once your up at speed it might centrifugally expand to inflated diameter. Anyway to each his own as you all have beaten this dead horse into nothing but pulp

 

[HellFire]

Before you looked at where it was scuffed .... did it stick? I know what a Metz does when pushed to the limit ... it feels "greasy". It could be the bikes weight, it could be the tires width, it could be the fact that it's practically a slick in the first place. When you toss a little moisture into the mix it's a downright scary feeling. I thought I'd give it a second chance by buying another E-ticket Metz and I was right the first time, they suck. Phil if you can tell me that you had enough confidence in the CT based on how it felt and stuck to the pavement buzzing around laying it over at speed, before you "looked" at the pattern .... I'm still sold. That's good enough for me 'cause if it feels good, do it! What I'm running now just don't feel good.
I'm having the front replaced tomorrow with what I've concluded is the best and cost be ****ed, right front tire for the R3. From what I've gathered here and there from reviews/this site/past experience ... the overpriced Avon Cobra is the "no compromise" choice. I expect it will be a nice match to either the Riken or Goodyear R1. Most likely I'll have to make a decision in about 3000 miles, the new Metz is already looking shoddy after 3200 miles and I just don't have any faith in it.
Pheobs now has the Rivco center stand and Triumph floor boards so cornering like a Ninja is out of the picture, I scrape steel to pavement every exit ramp. Regardless of the controversy, I'm looking for holeshots and wet traction. I'll be sure to post my disapointment if she only hits 145 instead of 150mph.
Phil all I can say is that if you felt good about scraping the pegs with confidence prior to the critics input, thats better than I ever felt with the Metz.

 

[IMFASTTOO]

Bad handling

Before you looked at where it was scuffed .... did it stick? I know what a Metz does when pushed to the limit ... it feels "greasy". It could be the bikes weight, it could be the tires width, it could be the fact that it's practically a slick in the first place. When you toss a little moisture into the mix it's a downright scary feeling. I thought I'd give it a second chance by buying another E-ticket Metz and I was right the first time, they suck. Phil if you can tell me that you had enough confidence in the CT based on how it felt and stuck to the pavement buzzing around laying it over at speed, before you "looked" at the pattern .... I'm still sold. That's good enough for me 'cause if it feels good, do it! What I'm running now just don't feel good.
I'm having the front replaced tomorrow with what I've concluded is the best and cost be ****ed, right front tire for the R3. From what I've gathered here and there from reviews/this site/past experience ... the overpriced Avon Cobra is the "no compromise" choice. I expect it will be a nice match to either the Riken or Goodyear R1. Most likely I'll have to make a decision in about 3000 miles, the new Metz is already looking shoddy after 3200 miles and I just don't have any faith in it.
Pheobs now has the Rivco center stand and Triumph floor boards so cornering like a Ninja is out of the picture, I scrape steel to pavement every exit ramp. Regardless of the controversy, I'm looking for holeshots and wet traction. I'll be sure to post my disapointment if she only hits 145 instead of 150mph.
Phil all I can say is that if you felt good about scraping the pegs with confidence prior to the critics input, thats better than I ever felt with the Metz.

HEY BONES tell us what tire your running and i saw that your using all of it and running hard by the CT bikes ARE you having all these problems sliding all over the place ?? IVE been riding the modded ROCKETS with double the HORSE POWER of a stocker and havnt experienced any of the traction problems that are talked about and ive run hard through the twisties DRAG RACED and made some high speed runs much faster than any mentioned here SO WHATS UP ??? I rode PHILS bike and the handling is well terrible and PHIL has TO BE SHARING DRUGS WITH SCOTT but SCOTT makes sense I think its amazing that anyone would ride anything that felt that BAD its hilarious but whatever floats your boat