Lube the splines...

[imcool]

received following in mail today, i feel comfortable doing some service on the bike now. every part is built in either germany, poland or UK

 

[imcool]

Here's an update to the process and an issue that you should be aware of. The first time may be a bit of a hassle, but if you ignore lubing the splines you will regret it later. This may go long...

It's really interesting that the need to lube the splines is not on the scheduled maintenance table. It has to be done periodically. You can see on my bike where after 8,000 miles the grease is drying out and what's left is getting pretty thin. Look up the subject on the 2.3 Rocket threads- the 2.5s are not exempt. Grease is grease.

An issue you'll likely encounter the first time you remove the final drive. Three of the four bolts on my final drive backed out along with the cap nuts. Why? The cap nuts have a stronger thread lock compound and that causes the bolts to back out.

On page 1260 of the service manual it states, "If a stud fitted to the rear bevel box becomes loose when the fixings are removed, a new stud must be fitted."

I'm shocked to see that they are actually reasonably priced
Stud, M12, Enc, Slv T3201277(Current price) $ 3.74
and so, you may want to go this route, but be prepared for "not in stock" and the down time, unless you plan well in advance.

What I've found is that anytime/everytime Triumph mentions removing a bolt with lockite on it they say you need to replace it. The replacements have loctite applied. But, is the bolt actually bad because you loosened and re-torqued it? I think not.

Here's what I did:

• Once out, I removed the dried loctite from the bolts. There are two different threads on these 12M bolts. The rough thread goes into the final drive and the 1.25 pitch is what the cap nuts go onto.
• The rough thread has blue loctite on it. Wire brush it, use isopropyl alcohol, and maybe a pick to remove- pretty easy.
• Removing the cap nuts from the studs after they were out was a PITA. It took a good bit of force - I should have used some heat to weaken the compound. The fine thread has some more serious compound on it.
• Strange, because the manual does not instruct you to reapply any kind of thread lock on those nuts when re-installing, which I did not.
• 
  
  
• Use two nuts of the appropriate size on each end of the studs to give you a grip for removing the cap nut and for reinstalling the studs into the final drive. Tightening the nuts hard against each other creates a wrench point with which to apply force without marring anything. For example, to remove the cap nuts, see below. Use heat on the cap nuts to make it easier.

• Once out, I soaked the nuts in alcohol and used a pick, carefully, to trace the threads to remove the compound.
• Apply blue Loctite to the rough threads and torque into the final drive. You'll want to use two nuts on the 1.25 pitch thread side so your torque wrench can turn the studs. Torque to spec and according to sequence (see manual).

• Once you have the studs reinstalled and all threads clean, including the nuts....
• Clean up the final drive and apply moly grease to the splines and internal mating surface of the final drive.
• Place the shaft in a straight out position with the spring balanced inside the shaft's opening.
• Make sure the two sleeves are on the studs, not sticking out of the mating surface with the shaft.
• Hold your mouth right and lift the drive onto the shaft. This is the hardest part. You need the spring to stay in place, the splines to line up with the female end on the FD, and then you need the studs to go into the four holes. You'll probably need to grab the shaft with your third hand to help position it so that it all lines up correctly. This is where an assistant is a Godsend, but I never have one and just do a lot of cursing, sweating and grunting.
• Finally, magically, after many attempts, the universe will align and the two ends will come together as lovers.
• Torque the nuts according to spec and sequence (see the manual).
• Next time you'll probably not have an issue with the studs and the procedure will be much, much, easier.

This is a great time to remove your brake pads, push the pistons out a bit and clean up everything brake related (I do this with every tire change). I change the final drive fluid while I'm at it.

Lubing the splines and changing the FD fluid is your best insurance against a very costly replacement down the line.

how did you torque the stud with 2 nut method to specs from manual? and can you answer my question about nut size from the last photo below @Journeyman28778 Thanks

 

[Journeyman]

how did you torque the stud with 2 nut method to specs from manual? and can you answer my question about nut size from the last photo below @Journeyman28778 Thanks

Go to the hardware store with that stud and get two nuts to fit the finer threaded side. If you tighten them against each other they will lock on the stud so that when you torque down the top (outer) nut it will stop against the lower nut. You're effectively creating a "handle" to grab onto the stud for your torque wrench.

Use a torque wrench and torque to spec (turning stud into final drive), then remove the nuts by turning in opposite directions. Don't back off the stud from the final drive.

Don't over torque, as you're driving into the final drive which bottoms out.

I really don't think you needed to buy the studs, but definitely won't hurt. You'll notice over time that every single bolt that has thread locker on it, Triumph says to replace it. Not necessary- just clean up the threads and add thread lock to the existing bolt. It ain't going to fail.

Let us know how it goes.

 

[imcool]

Go to the hardware store with that stud and get two nuts to fit the finer threaded side. If you tighten them against each other they will lock on the stud so that when you torque down the top (outer) nut it will stop against the lower nut. You're effectively creating a "handle" to grab onto the stud for your torque wrench.

Use a torque wrench and torque to spec (turning stud into final drive), then remove the nuts by turning in opposite directions. Don't back off the stud from the final drive.

Don't over torque, as you're driving into the final drive which bottoms out.

I really don't think you needed to buy the studs, but definitely won't hurt. You'll notice over time that every single bolt that has thread locker on it, Triumph says to replace it. Not necessary- just clean up the threads and add thread lock to the existing bolt. It ain't going to fail.

Let us know how it goes.

thanks for replying, I will try another hardware store for the finer pitch thread nuts.

which grease did you use? @Journeyman28778
I searched a lot and best one I found is BMW OEM spline grease which they use in BMW shaft driven motorcycles

55usd for 50 grams
Staburags vet Nbu 30 Ptm OEM BMW 07559056992
Made in Germany

 

[Journeyman]

thanks for replying, I will try another hardware store for the finer pitch thread nuts.

which grease did you use? @Journeyman28778
I searched a lot and best one I found is BMW OEM spline grease which they use in BMW shaft driven motorcycles

55usd for 50 grams
Staburags vet Nbu 30 Ptm OEM BMW 07559056992
Made in Germany

Not familiar but should be good if high moly content. There are other choices. I think Loctite makes one. You want paste not grease.

 

[imcool]

Not familiar but should be good if high moly content. There are other choices. I think Loctite makes one. You want paste not grease.

just ordered this tube and hex nuts online as the pitch is 1mm on the green side and couldnt find any hex nuts in any store locally.

 

[Journeyman]

just ordered this tube and hex nuts online as the pitch is 1mm on the green side and couldnt find any hex nuts in any store locally.

I don't think that's what you should use, but not sure. The Beamer stuff you ordered is more likely. @Foamy lists some choices on this page...https://www.r3owners.net/threads/lube-the-splines.49596/page-3#post-798235

Any hardware store should have nuts to fit those threads. The metric stuff is usually in separate drawers.

I don't know where you are on this project, but your studs may stay in place. Two of mine backed out, rather than the nuts coming loose. Just depends... Notice there are small spacers on two of the studs. Make sure they go back on the right ones when you reassemble.

 

[imcool]

I don't think that's what you should use, but not sure. The Beamer stuff you ordered is more likely. @Foamy lists some choices on this page...https://www.r3owners.net/threads/lube-the-splines.49596/page-3#post-798235

Any hardware store should have nuts to fit those threads. The metric stuff is usually in separate drawers.

I don't know where you are on this project, but your studs may stay in place. Two of mine backed out, rather than the nuts coming loose. Just depends... Notice there are small spacers on two of the studs. Make sure they go back on the right ones when you reassemble.

okay, i cancelled castrol order, i am going to honda car dealership and getting the honda paste

Genuine Honda M-77 Moly Assembly Paste Molydbenum Lube M77 Grease M60 #X173 | eBay

This Molybdenum Disulfide (MoS2) paste is designed to work in temperatures between -46 and 232 Celsius. It is resistant to chemicals, oxidation, radiation and protects against fretting corrosion. South Dakota v. Wayfair, Inc.

www.ebay.com

Yes, I went to hardware store and check the nuts they had in m12 drawer and it would only fit the bigger thread pitch side of the stud.
I also checked all the local hardware stores website and none has m12 with 1mm.


"I don't know where you are on this project, but your studs may stay in place"
I have not opened anything yet, I am just in the pre planning stage.

 

[Sparky59]

Any type of hardware should always be ordered from the worlds biggest hardware store: McMaster Carr, They ship within 24 hrs.....found online....@mcmaster.com
They are also a mill supply house....

 

[imcool]

Any type of hardware should always be ordered from the worlds biggest hardware store: McMaster Carr, They ship within 24 hrs.....found online....@mcmaster.com
They are also a mill supply house....

i dont live in USA and the shipping is at least 70usd for even a lube tube to Canada from several suppliers/online websites etc.