Exhaust
- Thread starter Jim Wissmiller
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EasTexRIII
Living Legend
Yea, I didn't see it that Pauls putting you down dain, just pointing out the obvious so people can make an educated decision based on the real differences of the apples to oranges comparison...... But yea, to each his own
Nuttin wrong with mutton
Nuttin wrong with mutton
aviation1972
aviation1972
Okay. I need help. I don't know any better, and I never will, unless you guys stop simply saying "no" to flex pipe, and explain why you're saying "no". Do you all think flex pipe will burn through? Do you think it won't last? What? Short life span? Is the word "flex" itself part of the problem? Does the word "flex" make you imagine the pipe won't stay steady mounted and secure on the Rocket? Do you expect it to wiggle around on the bike and fall off? Or, become perforated with holes burning through? Looking like Swiss cheese? Let me ask you all? While it's working, will it work well? As expected? Cause that's about ALL you can ask of any part or component, ( whether it's a motorcycle, or something else ). When parts wear out, break, or malfunction, they're done. Question is: Did the part work properly in the first place, and how long did it last? I've been riding since the early '70's, but when it comes to mechanical upgrades and tweaking bikes for better performance, I'm a "newbie", ( not even a novice ). So, I'm here to learn, and make friends. I don't want to be stupid. Please help me learn? Thanks everybody. I have great expectations.
BigNorm
Boobie Inspector
I like what Dain is providing. If I go with his setup it will be because he is offering a muffler for a decent price. The price has gone up since it was first posted on this board but that might be him just keeping up with demand. I don't know. I would consider the flex pipe a maintenance Item. I can't imaging it would cost that much and if it wore out I'd just buy another piece and put it on there. I can't imagine it would be that hard. I'm learning that the true power potential of a naturally aspirated rocket comes from opening up the headers. Paul (Viking Exhaust) down in New Zeland makes a superb system from header to tailpipe, a cross over pipe which eliminates the restrictive box underneath (the flex pipe does that too). I believe Paul also makes a pipe that connects the stock header to the stock pipe making it 3 into 1 as well. Paul covers any which option you can think of. Dain offers an affordable kit that works and will work well. I'm guessing that the biggest gain to be had in doing a new pipe will be improved sound if you want more sound volume out of your bike. I'm back and forth on whether I want more sound or not. I'm enjoying hearing the pure beast of motor under me without a loud exhaust so I'm thinking about making my own crossover pipe which would implement the stock mufflers retaining the stock 3 into 2 setup without the box underneath. I like that these guys are offering options. We have Paul in New Zeland, Nevile Lush in Australia (I believe), CES, Carpenter here in the states, and others providing products for our interest and pleasure. To all of them I say THANKS! 
aviation1972
aviation1972
Thanks for your thoughts, BigNorm. I enjoyed reading your points of view. You seem to know what several fabricators are offering. So, you can compare. Interesting to read. Personally, I'm seeking a much LOUDER Rocket. I get so tired of listening to extremely loud Harleys, knowing all the while, that they can't hold a candle to my quiet Rocket 3 Touring. So, I'm craving decibels, and greater performance too. Hope I get both. Hey? Let me ask? Doesn't the automobile industry successfully use flex pipes in some of their exhaust applications? Just asking. Cause, unless we're dealing with higher exhaust gas temperatures, and/or higher exhaust gas pressures, we shouldn't experience any problems from using flex pipes on our exhausts. Doesn't that make sense? I don't know. If it doesn't make sense, tell me? If I'm wrong, tell me? I'm just trying to use common sense. That doesn't mean I'm right. I could still be wrong.
Dain
.040 Over
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2014
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- Ride
- 87 Kaw Eliminator 1000, 87 Yam Vmax, 08 Vic Vision Tour Pre, 08 HD Electraglide Ultra Classic, soon 05 Triumph Rocket3
No your are right auto's have been using them for years and it's the same ones I use. I have 6000 mile on mine and I'm sure others with my set up have even more. As to the bashing if any of you guys want to call me just pm me and I will give you my number and we can talk over the phone either my customers or the bathers so let's see it you want to talk.
Paul Bryant
Living Legend
O.K. Guys a couple of things here.
As mentioned earlier by Scotty, cost is a consideration, but so is style.
We all have our own perception of what looks good, and that of coarse varies from one person to the next.
Dain is offering one style, myself another (simply talking about the mufflers at this point)
No body gains any points by putting some one else down, that's the realm of Politicians so lets leave that to them.
But when it comes to reliability of a product, item or service, this is a different story.
Being careful here not to put Dains product down, the fundamental problem is that his alloy inlet will heat and cool at a different rate to the stainless flexy pipe.
This variation will cause the soft alloy to move against the stainless flexy pipe. It will wear, loosen and leak. You will tighten the clamp and it will do the same thing all over again, you WILL get sick of doing this.
Note it is the Alloy that is wearing, not the stainless flexy pipe.
A good example of this;
Triumph (Meriden) in 1971 eliminated the steel screw stubs in the Exhaust ports of the T120 Bonneville's that the header pipe clamped to (Steel header on steel sleeve)
They then simply "pushed" the header pipe into the port and retained it elsewhere.
This was a useless system that leaked badly. People came up with the idea of welding an alloy stub to the head (Head is alloy)
So now we have a steel header pipe clamped on an alloy stub, a total waste of time, this in fact was worse than the original "push in" set up as the alloy stub was worn away and the header leaked incessantly.
This is exactly the situation that Dain has with his alloy inlet muffler, sure there is not the same amount of heat at the muffler joint compared to the Exhaust port, but the end result will still be the same, steel clamped on alloy.
The flexy pipe itself is not the problem, these are used widely in a number of different applications.
For a M/C whilst the flexy pipe works well enough, it's a bit of a dodgy way of doing things, I would get flamed big time if I did things this way because it just is not the way things are done. It's a very "Automotive" way of doing things.
Russel, any questions that you have (on any subject) just fire away, there are many very good people here with a lot of real life experiance that will see you right.
As mentioned earlier by Scotty, cost is a consideration, but so is style.
We all have our own perception of what looks good, and that of coarse varies from one person to the next.
Dain is offering one style, myself another (simply talking about the mufflers at this point)
No body gains any points by putting some one else down, that's the realm of Politicians so lets leave that to them.
But when it comes to reliability of a product, item or service, this is a different story.
Being careful here not to put Dains product down, the fundamental problem is that his alloy inlet will heat and cool at a different rate to the stainless flexy pipe.
This variation will cause the soft alloy to move against the stainless flexy pipe. It will wear, loosen and leak. You will tighten the clamp and it will do the same thing all over again, you WILL get sick of doing this.
Note it is the Alloy that is wearing, not the stainless flexy pipe.
A good example of this;
Triumph (Meriden) in 1971 eliminated the steel screw stubs in the Exhaust ports of the T120 Bonneville's that the header pipe clamped to (Steel header on steel sleeve)
They then simply "pushed" the header pipe into the port and retained it elsewhere.
This was a useless system that leaked badly. People came up with the idea of welding an alloy stub to the head (Head is alloy)
So now we have a steel header pipe clamped on an alloy stub, a total waste of time, this in fact was worse than the original "push in" set up as the alloy stub was worn away and the header leaked incessantly.
This is exactly the situation that Dain has with his alloy inlet muffler, sure there is not the same amount of heat at the muffler joint compared to the Exhaust port, but the end result will still be the same, steel clamped on alloy.
The flexy pipe itself is not the problem, these are used widely in a number of different applications.
For a M/C whilst the flexy pipe works well enough, it's a bit of a dodgy way of doing things, I would get flamed big time if I did things this way because it just is not the way things are done. It's a very "Automotive" way of doing things.
Russel, any questions that you have (on any subject) just fire away, there are many very good people here with a lot of real life experiance that will see you right.
aviation1972
aviation1972
Thanks so much Paul. Very nice of you to explain to me, ( and others ). Alloy and steel, ( with intense heat ), don't mix. Is that the idea? So what's the solution? Don't mix heat incompatible metals? Is that it? The answer may be simple and elementary to you, but that's because you already know and understand all these things. So, thanks for bearing with me as I learn. Thanks much. And, thanks for encouraging me to ask questions. Sometimes I feel like I'm asking too many. Many of you guys own multiple motorcycles, but I only own one. My Rocket 3 is the most amazing motorcycle in the world. Not because I own one, but because it just is. I'm just lucky to have my own, and I intend to treat it with all the care and pampering it deserves.O.K. Guys a couple of things here.
As mentioned earlier by Scotty, cost is a consideration, but so is style.
We all have our own perception of what looks good, and that of coarse varies from one person to the next.
Dain is offering one style, myself another (simply talking about the mufflers at this point)
No body gains any points by putting some one else down, that's the realm of Politicians so lets leave that to them.
But when it comes to reliability of a product, item or service, this is a different story.
Being careful here not to put Dains product down, the fundamental problem is that his alloy inlet will heat and cool at a different rate to the stainless flexy pipe.
This variation will cause the soft alloy to move against the stainless flexy pipe. It will wear, loosen and leak. You will tighten the clamp and it will do the same thing all over again, you WILL get sick of doing this.
Note it is the Alloy that is wearing, not the stainless flexy pipe.
A good example of this;
Triumph (Meriden) in 1971 eliminated the steel screw stubs in the Exhaust ports of the T120 Bonneville's that the header pipe clamped to (Steel header on steel sleeve)
They then simply "pushed" the header pipe into the port and retained it elsewhere.
This was a useless system that leaked badly. People came up with the idea of welding an alloy stub to the head (Head is alloy)
So now we have a steel header pipe clamped on an alloy stub, a total waste of time, this in fact was worse than the original "push in" set up as the alloy stub was worn away and the header leaked incessantly.
This is exactly the situation that Dain has with his alloy inlet muffler, sure there is not the same amount of heat at the muffler joint compared to the Exhaust port, but the end result will still be the same, steel clamped on alloy.
The flexy pipe itself is not the problem, these are used widely in a number of different applications.
For a M/C whilst the flexy pipe works well enough, it's a bit of a dodgy way of doing things, I would get flamed big time if I did things this way because it just is not the way things are done. It's a very "Automotive" way of doing things.
Russel, any questions that you have (on any subject) just fire away, there are many very good people here with a lot of real life experiance that will see you right.
Joesmoe
IMOKUR2
Alas, everything in life is a tradeoff.
Ideally, folks weigh the subjective benefits for their personal situation, against the costs.
In work on satellites, and to some extent navy ships, one goes to great lengths to design and construct things mechanical to not only work well, but to do so with relatively long times between maintenance. The design philosophy for satellites is such that lifetime costs are exactly reverse compared to major capital asset such as a fleet of aircraft or ships. For the satellite, acquisition cost (design, construction, test, and launch) is ~80% while operation, often lasting many years, is generally 20% of the total lifetime cost of the system. For military terrestrial systems, typically, the acquisition cost is ~20% and the operation cost is 80%.
Being on a Rocket, we have the luxury of playing with that equation, at the edges. And the discussion here could be viewed from that perspective.
I suggest that without casting aspersions on anyone's creativity and livelihood, we could say, for some folks, a lower cost option was acceptable in terms of performance, and hopefully, those of us making that decision do so with our expectations appropriately set, for having to tend to it more often, and sooner, than other options.
What I wanted wasn't available. I went with what I could afford, and will end up with a hybrid approach, that may not appeal to some, but is what I chose, and I will hold no-one to account but myself for following that path.
A beauty of working with the Rocket, is that its uniqueness has attracted such wonderful people here, and given a plethora of options for the bikes, ranging from stock, stock plus accessories, and well beyond. Echoing other posts: if I had the money for a bigger house, with a bigger garage, and another Rocket reflecting a different set of decisions about tradeoffs, the world would be different.
Some day, the Rocket (like the current Captains) will fade, and a handful will remain, and purists will pay the most money for the machines that most closely match the as-built configuration.
Until that day, let us drink life with all the gusto we can muster, and toast our Captains all, past, present, and future.
Ideally, folks weigh the subjective benefits for their personal situation, against the costs.
In work on satellites, and to some extent navy ships, one goes to great lengths to design and construct things mechanical to not only work well, but to do so with relatively long times between maintenance. The design philosophy for satellites is such that lifetime costs are exactly reverse compared to major capital asset such as a fleet of aircraft or ships. For the satellite, acquisition cost (design, construction, test, and launch) is ~80% while operation, often lasting many years, is generally 20% of the total lifetime cost of the system. For military terrestrial systems, typically, the acquisition cost is ~20% and the operation cost is 80%.
Being on a Rocket, we have the luxury of playing with that equation, at the edges. And the discussion here could be viewed from that perspective.
I suggest that without casting aspersions on anyone's creativity and livelihood, we could say, for some folks, a lower cost option was acceptable in terms of performance, and hopefully, those of us making that decision do so with our expectations appropriately set, for having to tend to it more often, and sooner, than other options.
What I wanted wasn't available. I went with what I could afford, and will end up with a hybrid approach, that may not appeal to some, but is what I chose, and I will hold no-one to account but myself for following that path.
A beauty of working with the Rocket, is that its uniqueness has attracted such wonderful people here, and given a plethora of options for the bikes, ranging from stock, stock plus accessories, and well beyond. Echoing other posts: if I had the money for a bigger house, with a bigger garage, and another Rocket reflecting a different set of decisions about tradeoffs, the world would be different.
Some day, the Rocket (like the current Captains) will fade, and a handful will remain, and purists will pay the most money for the machines that most closely match the as-built configuration.
Until that day, let us drink life with all the gusto we can muster, and toast our Captains all, past, present, and future.
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