Engine Vibration continues

Makes me think twice about getting a new Rocket all the new ones seem to have lost the quality and reliability of the first ones(04-05)

I Somehow feel the same , thought of upgrading to a 2012 or 2013 roadster but now not so sure anymore I will wait , and read about updates and concerns from captains , see if this vibration I read about cause more grief to more people

now that my JD works fine maybe I should just keep it and ride it till old age sets in???

I have been thinking about this for a while as I have noticed this complaint among Roadster owners and not the older classic/standard models. It makes me wonder if anything has been changed in the clutch system. If the crank shaft did not have the drive gear the outer basket would just freely spin in the input shaft its not until the clutch springs allow the steels and fibers to be grip while on the internal hub that drive force is generated between the internal hub and the external basket. pulling slightly on the clutch lever will only take the slop out of the lifter piece which is in the end of the input shaft. Of course more tension on the clutch lever starts to relieve spring pressure on the fibers by pulling the pressure plate forward with the lifter piece. That being said if your sitting still and pull the clutch lever just slightly the input shaft is still spinning. And if your moving and just take up slack on the clutch lever the input shaft is still spinning. My first question would be are you just taking up the free play on the lifter piece when you pull on the lever or are you removing some of the spring pressure on the clutch pack? I am trying to figure out whether you are taking some load off the input shaft and its bearings or not? Keep in mind the basket runs on a different set of bearings then the input shaft does.

My 05' has a slight vibration at idle. If I just take up the slack in the cable with the clutch lever it goes away. I believe it's just the release mechanism flopping around until you put some load on it. If mine didn't do that I would be concerned that the clutch adjustment was to tight. Just the nature of the beast. If you guys need something to worry about, worry about your output shaft bearings

That should really cheer them up Fred

This came back from Triumph technicians here in NZ today

My/our assessment is as follows:


When I first rode this bike back in February with approximately 7500km on the clock, I noticed a small amount of resonance that was a bit more than usual, coming from the clutch area.


Although nothing to be concerned about as all Rocket engines have a ‘natural’ vibration emitting from the clutch area as this is a natural characteristic of that engine!


Triumph UK were happy to replace the clutch under warranty to ease any concerns your customer was having, which your dealership has done.


I/we have ridden the bike again, now with some 15000km on the clock, what I can feel now is completely normal and is what I would expect of any Rocket engine.


In our professional opinion we cannot find anything unusual in the engine or driveline side of the bike.


However what we have found is that when applying the front brake the front disc’s are producing a vibration which can be felt through the bike.

Please submit a warranty prior through the normal channels for a set of Front Disc’s & Pads.


Also after removing the exhaust system I have replaced ( under warranty ) one rubber mount that was broken ( R/H muffler ) & 3 rubber insulators, these were causing the chrome heat shields to touch creating fretting & vibration ( normal wear & tear ). Whilst I was in that area I decided to fit exhaust wrap in between the header pipe and the heat shield clamps in an attempt to reduce any further unwanted vibrations.


In conclusion we have had 3 leading technicians ride this motorcycle and in our professional opinion there is no mechanical issue with this motorcycle whatsoever.

This is my reply:

I have no doubt about your professionalism in what you do for Triumph NZ, however I have been riding Rockets since 2005 and the last 2 rockets that I have owned and ridden have vibrated at certain rev ranges. This one vibrates all the time now. The harder you ride it the more it vibrates. The first 2 rockets that I owned did not do this. They were really smooth to ride through all rev ranges and for all of the 16,000 of the first Rocket to 22,000 Kilometres of the second Rocket. I expected the same of the new Roadsters when I decided to upgrade because of the write ups like the one below.


The 2 Rocket III Roadsters that I have owned have also developed filthy oil almost straight away after getting the oil changed on a few occasions. Once was in February just before the Triumph Technicians rode my Rocket. It had fresh MOTUL oil in it from Experience in Auckland and the Technician that rode it at Hampton Downs said that it vibrated violently through the handlebars, seat and foot pegs when in fourth gear and increasing revs suddenly to gain fast acceleration. He said then that there was definitely something wrong with it. The other technician said that he could feel and hear a sort of resonance through the bike and he inspected the tyres, thinking that they might have been faulty.

The first technician decided at the time that we might have to try replacing some things to try to find the problem because he could not pin point it to any particular part of the bike.

I replaced the tyres on it. This made no difference.

A new clutch kit was put in it. This remedied the vibration for a short time, but the vibration came back and it came back quicker than when the rocket was new and it first developed the vibration. This also did not remedy the problem of not going into gear, and when it did go into gear it still on occasion jumped out of 1st gear like when I first picked it up after the new clutch was put in.

When the clutch kit was first replaced, the rocket was smoother like a new rocket again and the power output was what it should be. Since the vibration has come back the power output has dropped off noticeably and the oil is filthier than what it has ever been.

In the Winter 2009 Issue 006 of Triumph (The Official Magazine of Triumph Owners Worldwide) there was a write up on the new Rocket III Roadsters. On page 28, 4th paragraph reads as follows:
"What isn't clear from this photo is the fact the Roadster has new engine management systems featuring a CAN-enabled ECU, running Triumph's best software. As a result, the 2010 Rocket IIIs have improved drivability with better control and a smoother pick-up than the models they replace."
The key words here is SMOOTHER pick-up.

I rode the Demo Rocket at Hampton Downs in February this year. That Rocket was smooth as silk throughout the rev range.

Has anybody thought to put my Rocket on a Dyno to see what power output it has at the moment?


You say that “When I first rode this bike back in February with approximately 7500km on the clock, I noticed a small amount of resonance that was a bit more than usual, coming from the clutch area.

Although nothing to be concerned about as all Rocket engines have a ‘natural’ vibration emitting from the clutch area as this is a natural characteristic of that engine!


If this was the case why did we go through the trial of replacing the tyres and why did the factory suggest to replace the clutch kit and Motorad actually changing the clutch kit.

As a rider of Rocket III’s for 9 years I say that “This is not the natural Characteristic of that engine”, as I had ridden another 2013 Rocket III Roadster late in November 2013. This roadster had almost the exactly the same Kilometre reading as mine at the time. This Roadster was smooth without any vibration what so ever, just like the earlier models that I had owned and ridden. The owner of this Roadster was of the opinion that my Roadster was vibrating through the handle bars, seat and foot pegs.

If it is the natural characteristic of this bike, I don’t want it. I want my 2009 Rocket III Classic back. It was as smooth as silk and it seemed to have an awesome amount of power.


I will ride the rocket when it comes back and hopefully the changes that you have made will make it as smooth as what I had originally envisioned the Roadster to be and it will be easier to get into gear and it won’t jump out of gear as I am riding off and the revs won’t go screaming high because it has jumped out of gear leaving me to look like a novice. LOL


Thank you for your time and efforts to try and sort out my issue and I appreciate what is being done.

I am a true Triumph fan and always will be. Especially the Rocket III.


I look forward to a smooth Rocket Ride.

when you look at the slight changes in the clutch system between 2006 and present Roadster/ Touring models besides the slight change in lifter piece design (head) they have added a washer which fits behind the shoulder of the lifter piece its 15 mm I noticed this change when I purchased a complete 2011 clutch out of a touring. at that time which was 2012 they only made the change in the touring (at least in diagrams) and not the roadster. this washer had a ID of 15 mm which is .090" larger then the lifter piece shaft end that goes into the transmission input shaft this caught my eye as .090 slop seemed like something that would not run on center and the run out could cause vibration. What was worse is the rear diameter of the lifter piece has two undercuts which I suspected aided in oil flow out the input shaft to lubricate the lifter piece and the pressure plate roller bearing. (which is good for lubrication) but the under cut diameter is .470" which now means the 15 mm id washer was on a area that gives you .115 " slop and now the washer could run out more and could possibly induce even more vibration. Now I suspect the only reason it is there is to take up some of the end play between the lifter piece and the nose of the input shaft. but this will decrease the allowable wear of the fibers because it will allow the lifter piece to bottom out on the shaft and start relieving clutch spring pressure. Of course the thickness of the washer is on 1 mm or about .03907" which might be negligible but it still does not make me veer away from the vibration it can induce when there is no pressure on the clutch lever.
below is a picture of the washer I am speaking about on a lifter piece. Notice how easily the washer flops on the shaft do to the large ID and the undercut I was speaking of.



Now I helped a feller from Ohio with the changing of his timing chain guides and cam gears via phone tech. And at the same time he bought new clutch stuff for his 07 and the washer showed up I explained to him my thoughts on it and after careful consideration plus the fact that when he installed it on his bike he had no end play on his lifter piece we decided why change something that did not have any problems before. and he left it out of his. two years plus and no problems have occurred.
At the same time Hanso was reworking the clutch and noticed the extra part showing up with his stuff. he sent me a picture which better illustrates how sloppy the washer is on the lifter piece shaft. I believe he opened his back up and removed it.
the picture below also shows the difference in the lifter piece head design which I noticed was changed in the touring first. I have always run the newer style with no problems except when I grenaded my internal clutch hub. Mind you in my case the internal hub failure had nothing to do with the lifter piece or lifter shaft.



one other thing I noticed in the changes between the lifter pieces besides the head size was the shoulder which might actually be the reason for the washer is the rear shoulder the pressure plate bearing sits on. This is something I never worried about because I always use the larger headed lifter piece which might be implemented in all rockets now. I can not confirm this because I have seen 08 Rockets with the 04/05 clutch style in them. I can only guess sometimes the assembly line runs out of proper parts and then resort to what ever is on the shelf. You guys might remember one of our captains from the UK did a nice set of videos of checking valve bucket clearances and changing the clutch. Darn good videos but this is wear I noticed the outdated clutch assembly including the old style pressure plate in his 08. He had them run the vin number and it in fact was a 08. Somehow it got pieced together with early 05 clutch components. Go figure but anyway here is another shot showing the difference in the shoulder I was speaking of on the lifter piece.



Hope this helps or at least enlightens you to how there could be differences in what you have for a clutch in your Rocket and I hear the newer motors are better and as I said we shall have to wait and see how much problems develop with them. After four years we are starting to see some abnormalities in them. Some caused by the operator and some not!!!

TURBO200R4 said:

Hi All,

I have a 2010 Roadster with 30,000 kms and has always had a slight vibration that went away when pulling in the clutch lightly. I have noticed that the vibration is getting worse over time to the point that it is starting to get uncomfortable. It seems to me the entire clutch assembly just hangs out there on the end of the shaft. I am wondering if the bearing that supports it starts to wear and then the clutch "wobbles" causing the vibration. When the clutch lever is depressed it puts pressure on the entire assembly causing it to run true and stop vibrating. I am an auto mechanic but have never had the clutch apart to see if this is possible. Maybe someone who has seen it first hand can comment if this reasoning makes sense

HELLO
thread numbers #33 and #42
i have been a mechanic forever and these two guy know what they are talking about.
the trouble is in the clutch assembly. it may be in the spline area or the bearing sleeve or it may just need to have the clearance taken up by a slightly thicker washer.
it may take a new shaft that the basket rides on or a shaft and basket.
i have not been to mine.
warp has had the most experience and i think he is the one to ask as he has tried after market baskets and worked on his a lot because of the hp he has.

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It is the clutch release mechanism that vibrates and when you pull the lever and take up the free play it stops Ive noticed it on both my bikes

IMFASTTOO said:

It is the clutch release mechanism that vibrates and when you pull the lever and take up the free play it stops Ive noticed it on both my bikes

Click to expand...

i find it hard to believe that little piece of metal (lifter) no matter how loose it was could make that motor unbalanced. and by your theory when you engage it it straightens it up and runs smooth? for test purposes if that was the problem you could leave it out and start it in neutral to see if the vibration was gone. my theory is when the lifter is pulled slightly that it moves the part that is vibrating more towards center and then it runs smooth.
Warp thanks for the time and info you have given it would be so nice if some one could come up with the way to make them run smooth.
when i bought mine (07 classic) with 6000 miles i could feel vib. @ 3000 rpm at 25000 miles it is a little worse and it worried me when i am over 100 mph.

If my 06 had a vibration I must admit I do not notice it. Of course I have since modified the clutch so enough to say I cannot count mine. I do run the larger lifter piece, a MTC clutch basket because my original was suffering from excessive torque applications. You could see the plates in the back of the clutch where the anti backlash springs were seating suffering from being hammered so many times. It never failed but then I replaced it ahead of time. My detonated internal clutch hub happened when I had the Billet forged clutch basket which did not even get a scratch when the internal hub grenaded. Personally I think this vibration you guys are talking about coupled by a loss of power is not the clutch lifter piece and I am doubting whether it is the clutch basket especially when you throw in the loss of power. But then I am no Triumph Technician.