Dobeck AFR+ and RAMAIR post instal..bike runs badly...

[dougl]

It is physically impossible for it to bypass the Dobeck.

It wont matter which goes to which injector because it manages fuel using batch squirt control, so it manages all injectors at the same time.

Suggest, removing, verifying the bike runs right again without it and going from there. I posted some other suggestions in your other thread.

Do the injectors open and close at the same time? If you had a Dobeck without the wb o2 sensor, can't you tell it to apply zero trim, like a PC?

 

[Claviger]

The way most piggy backs work is generate a pulse modification amount based on user input, this is a multiplied value amount from the stock injector opening time the ecu comes up with. Unless your piggyback can do "per cylinder" fueling, it's going to batch squirt. It doesn't mean much fuel comes out of all three though, but the injector outputs will be a single simultanious signal.

The two cylinders not firing are a 0 value, so, if you add 10% fuel in a certain area, one cylinder will fire the 110% amount and then there are two strategies for the other two cylinders, let them fire a 10% squirter or, by use of some rather simple current monitoring hardware, you can enforce that if the injector is not pulling any load it doesn't get the modification value from the piggy back.

It all depends on the actual hardware control logic inside the dobeck.


So that's all a moot point for the OP.

Verify what you have without the dobeck still runs right first so you know nothing broke or malfunctioned. The you know for certain to point the finger at the dobeck or the bike and start diagnosing the problem.

 

[Idaho Red Rocket 3]

The Dobeck operates on "load based".

 

[xlr8tion]

@Claviger Bike runs fine without the DP AFR activated......albeit probably lean due to the RAMAIR so nothing is broken on the bike but you are right the ft lbs do drop 27 or whatever...It loses torque with the RAMAIR on the stock map. But it idles at 900, starts normal and runs fine with the RAM and the DP enable or disabled-it runs the same with the DP enabled or disabled so I think it is by passing it...Dobeck said the RAM with a base map was throwing the fuel tables so far our that their AFR cant see it but they have a wideband O2 sensor on it specifically provided by them...So if the bike runs normally with or with out the DP powered up the AF ratios must be right enough for their wideband to see, I think I have a defective unit-AFR.

But as a Side...unless mapping can fix it ..The RAMAIR is a big torque loser and causes the bike to rev fast but you do lose the Saturn V low RPM feel. Feels like a FJR 1300 now or a ST1300 ...Heres a pic of my ECU and I have a cable on order from Loneloc in London...I am not frying my valves so until Hanso or whomever can tell me what map to drop on a bike with a K and N and or RAMAIR....OR...the DP starts working....Not risking ruining the valves by running lean. In close....the take away is the bike runs 100 per cent normal except it revs fast and has lost Torque as Clav said it would with the RAMAIR.

Heres a pic of my ECU...what map is on there?


Thanks guys!

Greg

 

[dougl]

@Claviger Bike runs fine without the DP AFR activated......albeit probably lean due to the RAMAIR so nothing is broken on the bike but you are right the ft lbs do drop 27 or whatever...It loses torque with the RAMAIR on the stock map. But it idles at 900, starts normal and runs fine with the RAM and the DP enable or disabled-it runs the same with the DP enabled or disabled so I think it is by passing it...Dobeck said the RAM with a base map was throwing the fuel tables so far our that their AFR cant see it but they have a wideband O2 sensor on it specifically provided by them...So if the bike runs normally with or with out the DP powered up the AF ratios must be right enough for their wideband to see, I think I have a defective unit-AFR.

But as a Side...unless mapping can fix it ..The RAMAIR is a big torque loser and causes the bike to rev fast but you do lose the Saturn V low RPM feel. Feels like a FJR 1300 now or a ST1300 ...Heres a pic of my ECU and I have a cable on order from Loneloc in London...I am not frying my valves so until Hanso or whomever can tell me what map to drop on a bike with a K and N and or RAMAIR....OR...the DP starts working....Not risking ruining the valves by running lean. In close....the take away is the bike runs 100 per cent normal except it revs fast and has lost Torque as Clav said it would with the RAMAIR.

Heres a pic of my ECU...what map is on there?


Thanks guys!

Greg

Can't see the tune.

The Ramair won't be a torque loser once you retune for it. You can't expect the stock tune to work with it. What exhaust do you have? What stock tune are you using now? Did you ever open the secondaries with TuneECU or remove them? Once you get your cable, you can install a tune that will be pretty close to what you need. Then if you figure out the Dobek, you should be able to dial it in.

As far as your A/F being extremely out of whack just because of the Ramair, it's hard to believe. It's probably not leaner than 14.5. I had full Jardines and triple filters on and secondary plates removed and with the stock TOR tune loaded, the A/F was 15 or less.

 

[Claviger]

Ramair will cost torque across the entire RPM range, as do K&N triple filters if you do the exhaust. I posted dyno reflecting the difference last year, and yes it was tuned for the different flow.

The reason you have gains with ramair/k&N + exhaust is that the aftermarket exhausts are scavenging better and can actually pill hard enough during overlap of the cams to not need the long intake tract to speed up the intake air speed.

TLDR: Open element filters with stock exhaust header doesn't reflect gains in hp...

 

[Claviger]

What base map are you using with the ramair? It's a very small fueling change, no more than 10%, and that 10% is only high rpm, down low you'll actually be removing fuel because of reduced intake velocity.

 

[xlr8tion]

What base map are you using with the ramair? It's a very small fueling change, no more than 10%, and that 10% is only high rpm, down low you'll actually be removing fuel because of reduced intake velocity.

Thanks for all the help guys! IAs I said I believe I have a defective AFR. The nap number is worn off the ECU ...can only read 020...is there not a standard factory map for all 07:R3C s with that ECU...agree 100 per cent rhat the A F ratio can nt be so lean the AFR+ can't read it as the bike runs normal with the RAMAIR...This is waaay beyond my skill sets

G

 

[xlr8tion]

Anyone know where I can order one of these from the US so I do not have to wait 2 weeks for my cable from London?

Thanks...G

PD....Anyone on Amazon sell these?

 

[dougl]

Ramair will cost torque across the entire RPM range, as do K&N triple filters if you do the exhaust. I posted dyno reflecting the difference last year, and yes it was tuned for the different flow.

The reason you have gains with ramair/k&N + exhaust is that the aftermarket exhausts are scavenging better and can actually pill hard enough during overlap of the cams to not need the long intake tract to speed up the intake air speed.

TLDR: Open element filters with stock exhaust header doesn't reflect gains in hp...

After my PCIII was remapped, my peak torque was 162 at about 3500.

Anyone know where I can order one of these from the US so I do not have to wait 2 weeks for my cable from London?

Thanks...G

PD....Anyone on Amazon sell these?

Amazon sells them. Look for TuneECU cable for Triumph Rocket.