Darkside/downside

[STRIPES]

How strange. First the MC tire patrons extoll the virtues of more traction vs darkside.

Now the sentiment is that they are designed slip? Things that make you go hmmm

Not unlike Obama giving the "same" speech one month later.

TP is uncommonly quiet? I know he must be itching.

 

[GPMAZ]

How strange. First the MC tire patrons extoll the virtues of more traction vs darkside.

Now the sentiment is that they are designed slip? Things that make you go hmmm

Not unlike Obama giving the "same" speech one month later.

TP is uncommonly quiet? I know he must be itching.

I don't recall saying anything about levels of traction regarding car tires vs motorcycle tires. I simply pointed out how motorcycle tires behave in the extreme. And I'm not trying to comment on the virtues or defeciencies of either type of tire. I'm just asking a question. If for some reason you choose to turn that in to some kind of political reference, well fine, whatever.

But I still wonder, how does a car tire behave at the limits of traction? Does it slide predictably and recover, or does is just let go. I would guess with the power that the Rocket possesses, and the abilities many here claim to possess, someone has surely pushed a car tire hard enough to comment.

Its the same question we ask with tires for our race car. Some types and brands of tire will stick forever and suddenly let go with little warning. Others will slide predictable and can be recovered at will.

 

[xhdskip]

He's waiting on me to post so he can demonstrate his superior mentality
and use his thesaurus and dictionary once again.
I like my CT tire, that's all that really matters ain't it?
I feel more comfortable on the road in any conditions I've ridden in so far.
I'm willing to take the chance of a sidewall malfunction
vs. the poor grip and tread life of the metz.
ya'll ride safe whatever you ride.
skip

 

[STRIPES]

That wasn't directed at you GP. Mostly for TP.

You do have some good points for consideration. When I ran a Metzler, infrequently I would get her a tad sideways. The only time I have lost traction on the darkside was when I got my first one and it wasn't "burned in". When I turned the corner after leaving the shop where it was installed I powered up just a little....not very much at all and I thought it was going to "swap ends". Sure got my attention. The new rubber sure was not very tacky for the first few miles. Being I wasn't expecting it and not going very fast, I almost low sided it as the rear tried to scoot out from under me.

Other than that, I have never had a darkside broke loose with the rear hanging out yet. Good question..... I also would be interested in knowing if anybody has that experience with a drkside.

 

[mexican]

Sorry Lupe, just making an observation and asking a question.

I've never tried a car tire, so I can't say whether I'd like it or not.

GP, that was not directed to you at all, it was directed to the whole car vs mc threads, seems like its all people wants to discuss anymore, you know, there are more important topics, like where do women have the curliest hair?

 

[GPMAZ]

Yeah, the first few miles on new tires can be a bit precarious.

Something we do with our race cars is we scuff the tires. Mount a new set of sticker tires and run 4 or 5 hot laps, just enough to get the tires up to full operating temperature. Then take them off and let them sit overnight. Next day those tires will stick better and last longer than a brand new set. Something about the heating/cooling cycle effect on new rubber.

Sure would be nice to have that option with street tires. Not too practical though.

 

[Evil Mitch]

I dont know about you guys but I remember that before when I had the Metzlers on my bike I could feel the tire slip if I gunned the throttle a bit.
It was especially ass puckering if I was accelerating out of a turn, a momentary slip sideways of the rear tire.
I lost traction for a second.
I dont have that problem anymore with my car tire, I do not have to worry about that slippage.
That worry is gone now.
This is one reason why I will never go back to a MC tire.

Doesnt happen with the Bridgestone exedra max


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[HansO]

In the video the bike dosen't have the ground clearance of the R3 and there is a huge mouse in the side wall because of the under inflation.the car tyres on your car do the same under extreme cornering they are designed to distort, you only need to watch the livefeed cameraundercar shots they show at bathurst and having been at bathurst watching them go thru the corners you wonder how they keep them on the rims

You guys are doing the equivalent of Genetic Modification by tyre under inflation in an effort to keep as much tread on the road as you can and to make a car tyre work on a motorcycle..
see above
Fine by me because its your risk, but it begs the question are you willing to gamble your lives to prove it can work? even though its not designed for our application.
Its a little unnerving when some of you guys end your posts with ride safely or sometimes criticise other riders for dangerous behavior.
also see above
Sorry guys just my opinion, I hope you never have to force the ole girl down in an emegency situation on a wet road whilst being on the ct edge and on that bulbous side wall ..

Just saying in the interest of safe riding

I have a lot more confidence braking in the wet even while leaning and tow ing a 450kg trailer because I might look like I am on the sidewall but it is just technoligy at work the corners of the tyres flaten out under pressure that is why they have the tread running a inch or so up around the corner of the edge of the tyres, we are not useing Crossply tyes which had no thread past the flat part

I agree wholeheartedly with your well presented response not being myself very good at putting down my views I think what you wrote makes lots of sense .

I rather spend the extra money for the proper tire even when I think I am being ripped off rather than chance it with a tire formulated for an entirely different application
even when darksider feel the saving and the behavior of said tire are near perfect I think a possible unsuspecting critical situation while riding could alter the bike behavior in a way no average rider could predict and control .
beside there is always a tendency to expound and stretch positive aspects of a controversial experiment, it is the human nature . the mere fact that some rider use a CT is to a point a testament to our inquisitive mind about seaching for a better mousetrap it is however also a sobering fact that we are able to make the choice or not whether to mount the flat versus the round ..freedom of decision that is what makes it so interesting ....my 2cts

OMG! You are right!

I wondering now why the difference.... I'm thinking it has to be from lower pressure in the CT allowing the car tire to extend the footprint across more of the flat area. Which makes me think (me thinking can be dangerous). Could we DS-ers over working the sidewalls if we do just twisties? Hence, if so, how long would it take to make a sidewall fail? Has anyone here running a car tire have a sidewall fail before the tread wears out? I had a bead to fail and blow out on my way to RAAIV but it was a manufacturer defect. The tire was bran spankin new.

More fodder for the two trumpeters.

Thats funny, does not look like much more than 2 inches in this video..
go to video at 58 seconds. ROADSMART II VIDEO - YouTube

still more than the 1 inch of a bike tyre while cranked over

That video spooks me too. I'm sure that trail of rubber on the pavement is from tire stress resulting from overinflation.

For the record, I have yet to ever put any scuff marks on the sidewall even after riding the Tail.
and you wont if you running a correct presure for your weight the only tyre I have seen do it (go on to the actual sidewall) is the Toyo Proxes T1R
As an afterthought, I just went out and put a tape on my tire and see just how much footprint is on the ground. Good eye, Canberra..... it measured at just over 4.5 inches.

I dont know about you guys but I remember that before when I had the Metzlers on my bike I could feel the tire slip if I gunned the throttle a bit.
It was especially ass puckering if I was accelerating out of a turn, a momentary slip sideways of the rear tire.
I lost traction for a second.
I dont have that problem anymore with my car tire, I do not have to worry about that slippage.
That worry is gone now.
This is one reason why I will never go back to a MC tire.

the Metz are Crap compond possible designed for reasonable straight line traction but as I found that to is questionable once you get them hot I sincerly beleive they never thought
we would lean them over and acelerate because if you just roll thu the corners they were fine

Motorcycle tires are designed to slip. If you watch a MotoGP race you will see the bikes slide on every corner. While the feeling may be disconcerting to someone not used to riding a more sporting motorcycle at its limits, the tire is performing within its design capabilities. Given a lack of road hazards, water, oil, etc, a sliding rear tire is very controllable. Reduce the lean angle, or reduce throttle input and the tire will regain traction. I beg to differ the MottoGP tyres are a completely different kettle of fish yes they are designed to slip but if they used the same silicon (not rubber) compond in our bike tyre we would be paying over $1,000.00 a tyre and only gett ing a couple of hundred miles out of them

My question would be what happens to a car tire when it does lose traction in a turn? At that point are you on the sidewall? Can you slide a car tire in a controlled manner and simply end the slide by reducing the lean angle or are you past the point of no return?

yes I have under extreme condition gunned it comming of the scraping the pegs and had it start to drift a little but in a controlled manner and as soon as I shifted my body weight over the tyre it resumed prefect grip

I watched the video several times and stopped it frequently. FROM WHAT I SAW, it shows the contact patch to be no more than around 2 inches at full lean, sidewall contorted, and you can see the front tyre being pushed. My Bridgestone MT has double that and my front tyre tracks true and wears evenly from edge to edge. I repeat, this is MY OBSERVATION of the video provided.
for starters richard as we have discussed the majority of you riding is in the ACT with its near perfect cambered roads that is why you have even wear and believe me the stiffer carcassin a bike tyre does not give you as much rubber on the road at leaning angle that you are thinking

Stripes' pic LOOKS to be a bit better but if you also look at the front tyre in that pic it LOOKS to have a 4 inch contact patch too. So what does that tell us? That pictures can be deceiving.


I've ridden behind Hanso and there's no doubting he can ride with the best of them with his car tyre. I know he runs the correct pressure (for him) and that he has no issue with handling whatsoever. But I've seen it up on the corner just as much as I've seen it with a wide contact patch. The contact with the road changes all the time. At no time could anyone with a car tyre count on there being any particular amount of tread on the road, even when travelling in a straight line. On the other hand I KNOW, no matter what angle I'm leaning, that I have at least 4 inches of purpose built Bridgestone rubber on the road.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but you will find that when at ful lean you will only have about an inch of rubber due to the MC tyres stiffness not the 4 inches you have when traveling in a straight line
Thanks for the "evidence".

I feel ilke im getting light headed with all this going around and aroud and around and around and around and,,,,,,,,,,,
I think we get it, you like car tires, great! And you dont like car tires. Great also, End of discussion

I couldn't agree More Lupe this discussion is all about opinions if my CT is as unsafe as some would protray then I should have been dead or had several bad accidents by now
the only reason I even reply is so I might enlighten those that don't understand that car tyre techonlogy like bike tyres has imporoved in leaps and bounds since we first started riding back in the Late sixties (in my case)

Geez I just realized I am going to kill myself in my car cos Im running the the same tyres that the Highway patrol car use and after a quick run up the mountain there is scuffing on the sidewalls.... oh no we are all doomed... this is a joke I'm outta here!!

 

[HansO]

Yeah, the first few miles on new tires can be a bit precarious.

Something we do with our race cars is we scuff the tires. Mount a new set of sticker tires and run 4 or 5 hot laps, just enough to get the tires up to full operating temperature. Then take them off and let them sit overnight. Next day those tires will stick better and last longer than a brand new set. Something about the heating/cooling cycle effect on new rubber.

Sure would be nice to have that option with street tires. Not too practical though.

you said it all there that is the same reason we don't use the same tyres as MottoGP bikes

 

[HansO]

He's waiting on me to post so he can demonstrate his superior mentality
and use his thesaurus and dictionary once again.
I like my CT tire, that's all that really matters ain't it?
I feel more comfortable on the road in any conditions I've ridden in so far.
I'm willing to take the chance of a sidewall malfunction
vs. the poor grip and tread life of the metz.
ya'll ride safe whatever you ride.
skip

Right on the money there Buddy as you can read in my other post I doubt you will have to worry about sidewall malfunction..... the problem is some people think we are still using Sixties technology in car tyres, It has been my observation that these days very few people would care what they put on the cars unless they are motor enthusiasts they just go in and get the cheapest deal they can because they drive sedately and get on thier bikes for thier speed fix