cuts out and won't start in Neutral

[Andy E]

Just so I am not confused or get confused is the side stand down when your doing this or is it up? You can by pass it for testing I think just unplugging it might be enough so the contact is open. It could be the plunger on the side stand switch is stuck in. I have to go look at one hopefully the old style is like you new Roadster guy's

I am starting and running the bike with Sidestand up if that helps Cheers.

 

[warp9.9]

I am starting and running the bike with Sidestand up if that helps Cheers.

OK so when you put it in gear it is acting like the side stand is down. it is a plunger maybe yours is getting stuck in which is like the sidestand being down. There is a solid end so you could reach up there with a pair of needle nose pliers and see if it pulls out. If it does see if the bike will start and stay started with as you put her in gear.

 

[DEcosse]

OK so when you put it in gear it is acting like the side stand is down....

Well, unfortunately that's not the case - the problem is the logic appears to be inverted, because it is OK when it's in gear and it's dying when neutral is selected!

So this one is a little hard to fathom from an interlock logic perspective ....

It should need EITHER:
Side-stand NOT down (i.e. the switch is NOT closed)
OR
Neutral Switch made.

What that means is that:
If it's in Neutral, it does not care whether stand is up or down
If side-stand is up, it does not care whether transmission is in Neutral, or not in neutral (i.e. in gear)

The problem condition:
It starts/runs when side-stand up and transmission NOT in neutral
It kills with side-stand up and transmission goes to neutral.

For me, the logic (& I mean electrical logic, not human deduction) does not compute that this is an interlock problem:
1) the starter runs* in the 'fault condition' i.e. in neutral and side-stand up - it would not if this were an interlock logic issue
(*not 100% on the R3 - on other Triumph models, the starter will not operate if in the interlock situation, let alone allow engine to run - perhaps someone can validate/test this for me: bike in gear, side-stand down, clutch in, does starter operate, just no start?)
2) it would require BOTH the GPS AND the Side-stand logic to be inverted - multiple simultaneous issues, while not impossible, are unlikely.

So my prognosis is not so much that this is an interlock issue, but more that the engine will run while it has some load (in gear, clutch in) but will not when it is neutral (and therefor the neutral map is also selected)
Therefor I think there is something related to the fueling (more likely air) this is causing the issue rather it being an interlock issue.
So I'd be looking towards the vacuum hoses and MAP sensor for the source of the problem

What say ye @warp9.9?

 

[Adam79]

I have put my bike in gear stand up, clutch in and starts, stand down in gear clutch in starts, all of above with clutch out does not start, stand down no clutch in and will not start if in neutral tried all above in neutral and won't start, everything I try has to have clutch lever in. Maybe a switch issue it does fall loose sometimes maybe. Hope this makes sense to someone other than just me, pmsl

 

[DEcosse]

... stand down in gear clutch in, starts .... l

Are you sure about that, that the bike will run the starter with it in gear and stand down?
I can guarantee the engine will definitely NOT run in gear with the stand down; that is the whole safety interlock behind the side-stand switch, in that it CANNOT run like that
Ability to run the starter might be different - for example on my Daytona, with in gear and stand down it will still crank but simply not fire - but I believe the R3 will not even crank.

 

[Andy E]

Just so I am not confused or get confused is the side stand down when your doing this or is it up? You can by pass it for testing I think just unplugging it might be enough so the contact is open. It could be the plunger on the side stand switch is stuck in. I have to go look at one hopefully the old style is like you new Roadster guy's

Hi sidestand is up during start up as far I can see the plunger is moving in and out. I will have a closer inspection tomorrow. Removing the sidestand switch isn't easy need an angled Torx key.

 

[HansO]

Ken I am with you it sounds like a Map issue or possibly a slightly out of sync Stepper motor /TPS, I would be running the "Adjust ISCV" in TuneECU, if the stepper/TPS sync is not set right it will cause idle issues, I recently cured a mates idle problem by checking and finding it out by only .02 volts, it was .14 difference instead of .12

 

[HansO]

also while in TuneECU change the last 3 boxes idle speeds up to 890 rpm it will also run smoother this is one of the tweaks I do when I send out tunes to people

 

[Andy E]

Well, unfortunately that's not the case - the problem is the logic appears to be inverted, because it is OK when it's in gear and it's dying when neutral is selected!

So this one is a little hard to fathom from an interlock logic perspective ....

It should need EITHER:
Side-stand NOT down (i.e. the switch is NOT closed)
OR
Neutral Switch made.

What that means is that:
If it's in Neutral, it does not care whether stand is up or down
If side-stand is up, it does not care whether transmission is in Neutral, or not in neutral (i.e. in gear)

The problem condition:
It starts/runs when side-stand up and transmission NOT in neutral
It kills with side-stand up and transmission goes to neutral.

For me, the logic (& I mean electrical logic, not human deduction) does not compute that this is an interlock problem:
1) the starter runs* in the 'fault condition' i.e. in neutral and side-stand up - it would not if this were an interlock logic issue
(*not 100% on the R3 - on other Triumph models, the starter will not operate if in the interlock situation, let alone allow engine to run - perhaps someone can validate/test this for me: bike in gear, side-stand down, clutch in, does starter operate, just no start?)
2) it would require BOTH the GPS AND the Side-stand logic to be inverted - multiple simultaneous issues, while not impossible, are unlikely.

So my prognosis is not so much that this is an interlock issue, but more that the engine will run while it has some load (in gear, clutch in) but will not when it is neutral (and therefor the neutral map is also selected)
Therefor I think there is something related to the fueling (more likely air) this is causing the issue rather it being an interlock issue.
So I'd be looking towards the vacuum hoses and MAP sensor for the source of the problem

What say ye @warp9.9?

 

[HansO]

more I read over your Posts @Andy E the more I am convinced it has to be the TPS/stepper motor adjustment, if the the sidestand or clutch switch's were a problem it would not even turn over and you said the neutral light is on, you have also checked the GPS so the only other things that could be a problem is the vacuum lines between the throttle bodies and MAP sensor or as I said and most likely to issue is the stepper motor adjustment as vibrations can alter the adjustment it s pain in the A to get at but if you use a little mirror it will be easier and the TPS is notorious for going out of adjustment