Carpenter Stage 1

[muleskinner]

You mention nothing about pistons. Did you install Carpenter's high compression pistons? If not, there's you HP loss! Plus the OEM "Log" type exhaust manifold will not make the kind of HP Carpenter's kit is capable of.

 

[warp9.9]

You mention nothing about pistons. Did you install Carpenter's high compression pistons? If not, there's you HP loss! Plus the OEM "Log" type exhaust manifold will not make the kind of HP Carpenter's kit is capable of.

He went 210 route no pistons. Just a note Phil got the SJ2 kit no porting aftermarket tractor pipe and ended up with more hp.

 

[Tripps]

He went 210 route no pistons. Just a note Phil got the SJ2 kit no porting aftermarket tractor pipe and ended up with more hp.

What is an SJ2 kit?

 

[muleskinner]

Very interesting! So he put Carpenter's cams, speced for 11: 1 plus compression, in a 8:7 1 engine? Your kidding right?

 

[warp9.9]

Very interesting! So he put Carpenter's cams, speced for 11: 1 plus compression, in a 8:7 1 engine? Your kidding right?

Yes a few have oppted for that instead of the full kit.
Myself I would stick the pistons in so HP and fuel mileage would be up there.
Of the few this was the least hp I have seen. Something is not right there for sure. like out of time or bent valve/s

Tripps the SJ2 kit is just a joke between Phil and I

 

[muleskinner]

Wallace Racing: Dynamic Compression Ratio Calculator


Please open up this link and take a look at the "Dynamic compression" calculator. Read the brief explanation under the calculator. Then find out when Carpenter is closing the intake valves on his 11: 1 210 HP cams.

Using the "Static" compression ratio Carpenter's pistons produce, he says 11:4 1 I believe, and using a zero in the boost area, calculate what the dynamic compression ratio is. Then using the same intake closing time, plug in 8:7 1 static compression ratio into the calculator.

This will explain why you have to design a cam around a lot of things. One being the static compression ratio.

For a water cooled street driven/rode engine on pump fuel, a Dynamic compression ratio of around 9:5 1 is desired for a performance engine. The later you close the intake valves to increase overlap, the higher static compression ratio you need to make the 9:5 1 ratio.

If you put a late intake closing cam with a lot of overlap in an engine with low compression like our bike's 8:7 1,,,,you will have a "DOG" of an engine. Especially at lower RPM's.

When you are planning an engine you need to understand the relationships that exist between cam timing, static compression, rod length, bore, stroke, altitude and in the case of Turbos, or Blowers, boost pressure.


A calculator that lets you play around with design parameters and gives you a good idea of how the engine combination will work out for your intended usage is a must have.


By focusing on the dynamics we avoid the trap of looking at fixed or static values which can often be misleading.

If ya don't believe me, do a search on "Dynamic compression," "Cam design," and "Basic high performance engine building."

Have fun!

Just saying,,,,,. Been there,,,,done that.

 

[muleskinner]

Choosing a Cam


Here's another. Although the info is regarding Harley engines, the same basics apply to any internal combustion engine. (Although an air cooled Harley engine needs to stay around a Dynamic ratio of 9: 1.) That is unless the fuel you use has a high enough octane rating. Otherwise a Harley will "detonate" it's self in time. Especially in hot weather on pump fuel.

 

[Pig9r]

Too much cam for the engine?

 

[hart24601]

It shouldn’t be. They sell the 2 kits, 210 horse (that I got) without pistons and the 240 horse plus package. If the 210 didn't run right I hope they wouldn’t be selling it or making 210 horse plus from it. I think the 240 kits are making around 250hp now. I don’t need that much HP, I just want something that beats a vmax as that was the other bike I considered before buying the rocket. If I wanted anything faster I would have kept my zx14 or got an engine kit for that.

I also didn’t want the 240 kit due to higher cost and greater chance some something going wrong opening up the lower engine, a nice thought but I am in this mess now so joke is on me. I thought the dealer would have lots of experience working on triumphs, which they do, but it’s clear something isn’t right. I will work on getting it sorted next week, work is crazy now and I just don't have time this week.

As for the TOR's and headers - I want a somewhat quiet bike and I like it looks stock, I have modded everything else I own so a stock look is a change for me. The carp kit I bought says 210hp PLUS. With my stock header and TOR I would be happy with 180hp and thrilled with 190 and that should be reasonable.

And the 210 kit is without pistons, the 11.4 pistons are for the 240 kit.

 

[warp9.9]

It shouldn’t be. They sell the 2 kits, 210 horse (that I got) without pistons and the 240 horse plus package. If the 210 didn't run right I hope they wouldn’t be selling it or making 210 horse plus from it. I think the 240 kits are making around 250hp now. I don’t need that much HP, I just want something that beats a vmax as that was the other bike I considered before buying the rocket. If I wanted anything faster I would have kept my zx14 or got an engine kit for that.

I also didn’t want the 240 kit due to higher cost and greater chance some something going wrong opening up the lower engine, a nice thought but I am in this mess now so joke is on me. I thought the dealer would have lots of experience working on triumphs, which they do, but it’s clear something isn’t right. I will work on getting it sorted next week, work is crazy now and I just don't have time this week.

As for the TOR's and headers - I want a somewhat quiet bike and I like it looks stock, I have modded everything else I own so a stock look is a change for me. The carp kit I bought says 210hp PLUS. With my stock header and TOR I would be happy with 180hp and thrilled with 190 and that should be reasonable.

And the 210 kit is without pistons, the 11.4 pistons are for the 240 kit.

Scope the cylinders and see if the valves are closing. Then it time to check the cam to see if they were set right or moved again. You can get an idea by bring the number 1 piston up in overlap and look at haw far the valves are open. This is better dine with a dial indicator and mag base.







A shorten 25/32 wrench fits the cams well for indicating. cam bolts loose and tensioner tight so you just rotate the cam gears on the cams.



The crank can be seen with the scop efor those that have the blower or do not want to take the inspection cover off by the crank shaft.







Also if Bob states you can get 210 hp with the proper exhaust I am going to have to believe him as he has never steered me wrong.

Also the stage 1 pistons are now 11.8:1 compression dome was redesigned for better combustion.

I am hoping your timing is off like low overlap to much of one or both of the valves open during overlap. Sure is better then a bent valve though.

Hope this helps you understand