What a difference a tire makes!

[PacificRimSurveyor]

Do not know your creds, so me thinks I shall go with the engineers that taught the class.
FYI - The 140 Azarro (rear) is reversed - the 150 Cobra (front) is not.

Engineers is smart, as I is one.
(Sorry, trying to be funny)
Not for tires however, just Freeways, Bridges, Subdivisions, Pipelines etc.

Being a smartass, I went to the tire shop and noticed that on matching sets of MC tires, I checked 3 brands, that the front and rear patterns aligned only when reversing the rear. This would match the "designed" flow pattern intended by the engineers.

So "observation" be my "Creds"

Remember arguing with an engineer is like wrestling a pig.
The pig likes it.

 

[EasTexRIII]

OK, so it's just that the fender gap increases 0.59". I'm surprised it's that noticeable.
What is it that improves handling so much? Surely not the diameter. The narrower width and shorter sidewall height?

I think by looking at my photo it shows a difference to the eye. May just be me? Dunno.
As far as the diff in handling, all the science n math is beyond my level of give a sh!t - I just know I can feel it. Without a doubt I can feel it. No placebo bs

 

[1olbull]

I have the seen the sipes on front tyres going in both directions. I can't remember which was the the first one I put on with the pattern seeming to be backwards, but when I googled the tyre the manufacturer had an article on why you get better water dispersion with the pattern the "wrong" way on the front. I suspect that many of these things are as much marketing as science.

That there is the best comment yet.
Do they really go in either direction?
I did find these comments . . .
Tires Directional Arrows Explained By Avon Tyres

 

[1olbull]

Engineers is smart, as I is one.
(Sorry, trying to be funny)
Not for tires however, just Freeways, Bridges, Subdivisions, Pipelines etc.

Being a smartass, I went to the tire shop and noticed that on matching sets of MC tires, I checked 3 brands, that the front and rear patterns aligned only when reversing the rear. This would match the "designed" flow pattern intended by the engineers.

So "observation" be my "Creds"

Remember arguing with an engineer is like wrestling a pig.
The pig likes it.

Looking at the rear tire tread from the front of the bike seems to match the front tire tread direction?

 

[EasTexRIII]

Little things drive me nuts sometimes. It doesn't look BAD, just not as good, imo, as it does when the fender is a close fit. I'm willing to modify it because after experiencing the 140 tire i KNOW I'm never going back to a 150.

I'm curious to how such a small difference in tire size makes such a huge difference. I don't have a great grasp on motorcycle dynamics, but i assume the smaller footprint makes it less resistant to changes in direction, and less weight and diameter reduce the gyroscopic effect? I'm assuming it's the size, not the specific tire, but i could be totally wrong. All i know is that i was unprepared for how big of a difference one tire size can make.

Never mind the van.... his & hers lol. Just noticed the huge dent in the crash bars. Now that's gonna bug me!

Rob- it had the Metzler 150/80r17 on it before

I agree with you 100 pur cent. There is a huge difference in the "cat like maneuvers" of the baby tire !!!!!!

 

[warp9.9]

Little things drive me nuts sometimes. It doesn't look BAD, just not as good, imo, as it does when the fender is a close fit. I'm willing to modify it because after experiencing the 140 tire i KNOW I'm never going back to a 150.

I'm curious to how such a small difference in tire size makes such a huge difference. I don't have a great grasp on motorcycle dynamics, but i assume the smaller footprint makes it less resistant to changes in direction, and less weight and diameter reduce the gyroscopic effect? I'm assuming it's the size, not the specific tire, but i could be totally wrong. All i know is that i was unprepared for how big of a difference one tire size can make.

Never mind the van.... his & hers lol. Just noticed the huge dent in the crash bars. Now that's gonna bug me!

Rob- it had the Metzler 150/80r17 on it before

The fender can be lowered by drilling and tapping new mountig holes. Watch so yoj do not go so far that the chrome side pieces stick above the fender. Also even though you lower it you can not change the arc radius.

 

[barbagris]

A recent advanced motorcycle reconstruction class I took before RAA XI convinced me not to do this anymore.

Why exactly?.

There are even Universal F/R tyres available - Avon. And Avon even admit that a reversed rear on the front is "semi" acceptable practise.

I first learned of the Rear on the Front from from a M/C Tyre Design engineer (whom I shall not further identify as his company would crucify him). I strongly doubt the sprung/unsprung weight argument for light front rubber really applies to R3's.

My Azarro is coming to EOL. It has worn better (more even) than either Metz or Cobra. But still heaviest wear right side - about 2/3 from centre. Duration the same as the others combined.
I was going to fit a 140/75 Metz as it is Z rated (here). But I think I'm going for a Bridgestone 150/70 rear. It's going to be a bit of a pinch fit on a 3.5" rim - but so is the 150/80 Metzler anyway.
Plus it's such a common size I can find one in stock pretty much anywhere.

 

[rocketjohn]

It's not only less turning resistance or rolling resistance and all but by shortening the front but keeping the rear where it was, you reduce the rake angle just a bit. A less rakish front end will give crisper handling. Turn ins will be a bit different, how it stands back up will be different and so on. For the opposite adjustment, my Intruder is quite raked, and turning in is something you MAKE it do...let down your guard, and it will stand itself back up! It handles fine all in all, but you have to man handle it to get what you want out of it. The Rocket Touring is much less raked, and a shortened tire will make it even less so. I will switch to a 140 as well when time comes, and get myself some of that light airy feeling!

 

[Paul Bryant]

It's not only less turning resistance or rolling resistance and all but by shortening the front but keeping the rear where it was, you reduce the rake angle just a bit. A less rakish front end will give crisper handling. Turn ins will be a bit different, how it stands back up will be different and so on. For the opposite adjustment, my Intruder is quite raked, and turning in is something you MAKE it do...let down your guard, and it will stand itself back up! It handles fine all in all, but you have to man handle it to get what you want out of it. The Rocket Touring is much less raked, and a shortened tire will make it even less so. I will switch to a 140 as well when time comes, and get myself some of that light airy feeling!

Quite right John.
I run an Excedra max on the rear, this "about" a ½" taller than the stock Metzler. By dropping to a 140 section tyre on the front ("about" a ½" lower) I have reduced the rake by 1°, it doesn't sound much but boy does it make a difference !
I drew this all up in my Auto C.A.D.

 

[geneseo1911]

Quite right John.
I run an Excedra max on the rear, this "about" a ½" taller than the stock Metzler. By dropping to a 140 section tyre on the front ("about" a ½" lower) I have reduced the rake by 1°, it doesn't sound much but boy does it make a difference !
I drew this all up in my Auto C.A.D.

FWIW, I also have the Excedra Max rear, so that may well be part of the magic sauce.