Waterproof DC12V to 24V Digital LED Panel Voltmeter Gauge Volt Meter

[1olbull]

Ken @DEcosse,
The fellow narrating the Sparkbright video sounds eerily like yourself ?!?!?!

 

[DEcosse]

Yes, he's a bit Scottish
I've done a bit of business with him, unrelated to the voltage monitors, but never actually met the guy.

 

[Ishrub]

.....

Again, never say never, but the MOSFET R/R used on the Rocket is a very reliable device. If any failures occur on A rocket, it is much more likely to be the Stator which is unfortunate because a major operation to replace on an R3 - engine out!
For that reason I recommend a Series R/R (have written about this elsewhere on forum) - a Series R/R draws much less current (about half) from stator and therefor the stator runs cooler and is much less likely to fry itself.

......

@DEcosse I have had my new gel battery run down twice since putting in a new cheapo Chinese R/R in my 2010 R3 Roadster. The 1st time to no starter turnover, the 2nd just partially as found when I put it on the charger today to check. Each time after fully charging the battery in the bike I measured the voltage at the battery terminals when running at idle at about 12.6v with a fully re-charged battery. When the throttle was increased gently the voltage dropped to about 12.4. I had assumed it should have risen slightly with revs. The battery charger is a quality digital smart charge and discharge version used for Li-Po, Li-ion, Ni-Ca and Pb lead for all DC voltages and number of cells at 0.1 to 5.0 Amp which for 12vPb gradually drops the charging Amps as it charges down to 0.40 Amp when it turns itself off.

Today I grabbed my Dad's current meter which clips over the wire and individually measured the Amps of each of the 3 alternator stator wires at the R/R plug while still connected and running at idle and up to 2000 rpm. I presume that each wire is a separate phase. The three wires had different readings, the first tested 12Amp at idle then 27Amp at 2000 rpm, and the other two were 32Amp and 33Amp at 2000 rpm. The R3 Roadster handbook at Specifications (p105) lists 37 Amps at 2000 rpm and 41 Amps at 6000 rpm I have not tried 6000rpm as it was inside garage and touch noisy. Can do though if required to confirm diagnosis.

I have a 2nd new Chinese R/R spare, should I fit that and do the Amp and voltage checks again with it fitted?

Have I measured these amps correctly and if not how should I?
Does this suggest my alternator stator is cactus and needs replacing?

 

[cusso ken]

I have had a simular voltmeter hard wired on my 1000CCA 100AH battery box that I use as a portable power supply for jumpstarts ect it is connected all the time it only draws SFA power in a month the battery only drops 0.5 volt I have ordered one and will hard wire it to the battery on my R3T and mount it next to my Merrin outlet on the RHS side cover

 

[Ishrub]

I have had a simular voltmeter hard wired on my 1000CCA 100AH battery box that I use as a portable power supply for jumpstarts ect it is connected all the time it only draws SFA power in a month the battery only drops 0.5 volt I have ordered one and will hard wire it to the battery on my R3T and mount it next to my Merrin outlet on the RHS side cover

I would still put in a small switch next to the dial as that constant draw would have a bigger effect on the much smaller 18Ah battery in the Rocket.

 

[DEcosse]

I have had my new gel battery run down twice since putting in a new cheapo Chinese R/R in my 2010 R3 Roadster.

Why did you replace the R/R?

... Each time after fully charging the battery in the bike I measured the voltage at the battery terminals when running at idle at about 12.6v with a fully re-charged battery. When the throttle was increased gently the voltage dropped to about 12.4....

Does this suggest my alternator stator is cactus and needs replacing?

That voltage is way low ........

You (presumably) had an initial problem and you changed out the R/R - you currently have a problem, which possibly (probably!) suggests the R/R was not the problem.
My experience with FH012 is that they are VERY reliable; and fact you have a problem currently also suggests that the R/R is/was not the problem.
That leaves the stator .........

Stator current - all three legs should be the same;
The way a Shunt Regulator works is that the stator is normally flat out at whatever rpm and whatever current is not sent to the Load (the bike) is shunted back through the R/R to the stator;
if you have one phase lower, it suggests that phase has a problem;
if a Regulator problem, it would typically be short and so current still 'max'; since it is 'low' it points to the stator.

There is a VERY simple test for a stator where you do not even need to power it on - unplug the R/R and measure resistance from any ONE of the three terminals (going back into stator) to engine ground; if you get a short, your stator is toast. You will get the same reading from each terminal to ground, because from pin to pin the resistance is very low (<1 ohm); so they will either all be short or none of them will be. So you can check all three but there is really no need - just pick one of the three and measure with respect to engine ground. It should be completely OPEN (infinite resistance)

I would still put in a small switch next to the dial as that constant draw would have a bigger effect on the much smaller 18Ah battery in the Rocket.

Voltmeter is going to have a fairly low power draw - if it has an LED display that would tend to draw more current than the voltmeter itself and that would depend on the specific device
However a small relay (compact reed relay - does not have to be an automotive type!) - is a good idea and makes switching on automatic.
You can also just connect it directly to an ignition-powered signal, but depending which one, you will likely have some drop from actual battery voltage. Consistency (or difference) is what you are looking for however, so even if it reads half volt less than battery then as long as you know that, it is fine. You can measure voltage at different points and decide which you can 'live' with.

 

[Ishrub]

DEcosse said: ↑Why did you replace the R/R?

Answer: My battery ran flat/died I thought and the replacement new one ran flat as well (I still have the 1st battery and it has retained a charge fine so I have been carrying it as a spare/backup in my pannier).
I checked output of R/R, zilch, replaced it and no problem for a while, rode more than 4 hours down and back to HansO at Bateman's Bay and for a month or so afterwards without a problem. Then the battery ran flat again and failed to start.

Thanks mate for the diagnosis and test procedure, I shall confirm it tomorrow And for possibly ruining my already sorry bank account balance As I have the two Chinese R/R I may try your series rig after it is fixed.

DEcosse said: ↑
.....Again, never say never, but the MOSFET R/R used on the Rocket is a very reliable device. If any failures occur on A rocket, it is much more likely to be the Stator which is unfortunate because a major operation to replace on an R3 - engine out!
For that reason I recommend a Series R/R (have written about this elsewhere on forum) - a Series R/R draws much less current (about half) from stator and therefor the stator runs cooler and is much less likely to fry itself.......

 

[DEcosse]

.... I checked output of R/R, zilch .. .

It's not really possible to get 'zilch' - nothing - out of the R/R; (well extreme maybe if all three phases were dead and that would be unlikely);
If you got 'zero' out, I suspect you had disconnected the output connector and looking for the output directly from the R/R - you cannot do that, it needs voltage from battery and load connected to it to operate.

If you find stator is bad, you might also find that your original R/R is actually OK.
But note the whole premise of the Series type R/R is to improve the reliability factor for that expensive stator - which, worse than cost, is an engine-out replacement.
Let's do the stator isolation test and see where we go from there. I'd be happy to be wrong here!

 

[Ishrub]

Well I did the stator isolation test, disconnected the R/R with power off and thankfully all three terminals going back to the stator were completely OPEN (infinite resistance) when tested with digital multimeter reading 'O/L' and with an ancient 1950's Analog needle confirmed 'open circuit' (my old man has and restores old electrical valve radios and test equipment etc).

I am unsure what else is the source of the problem (and IF an engine out and stator replacement is not required) as I have varied amp outputs at 2000 rpm on each stator phase wire (27.5, 31, and 32) rather than spec 37amp and the voltage measured at the battery terminal, with both Chinese R/R connected (in turn), drops on increasing rpm from 12.6/7v at idle to 12.4/5v. I was surprised at how hot the R/R s get. Do the R/R need to be run bolted to bike to earth the unit as I note the Black wire (of the Black/Brown pairing R/R connector) is earthed on the wiring diagram ?

 

[DEcosse]

No, it does not need to be grounded - the heatsink is isolated from the electrical ground
Your cheapy R/R is getting hot because it is an SCR Shunt Regulator - they all get hot; all that current is being shunted by a relatively high impedance SCR;
(the OEM is also Shunt, however is MOSFET, therefor will not get very hot - that is down to the resistance of the device - very, very low for a MOSFET so even at high current dissipates a lot less heat)
however if yours is shorted, then it will certainly make it even hotter.
If the stator is not shorted to ground then by all accounts it is likely good.
Regardless of what else, get rid of your piece of Chinese crap - if it IS shorted, you're not doing your stator any favours!

The other tests you can do on stator are:
1. Do your stator isolation test again when it is hot - just in case something is breaking down and you are not seeing immediately
2. Test the voltage; Set your meter to AC V (same as setting for what comes out of your wall socket!) and disconnect from R/R and start bike - measure between the three combinations of 2 pins
i.e. 1-2, 2-3, 3-1. (does not matter which you call 1, 2, 3)
What you are looking for is 'sameness' at any given rpm; the easiest rpm to check is at idle, since rpm will be constant while you check all three; as you increase engine speed the voltage will rise so to compare, you want to ensure engine rpm is the same for all three measurements; so lock your throttle; there is no need to rev it to 5K - indeed idle should be sufficient but if there is a differential it should be easier to see at a higher engine speed (but even 2500 will likely suffice).
Even with no load, (R/R not connected) you should still see a difference in generated voltage between phases if one is bad.