Stolen 2020 TFC

idk said:

I would think that by far the majority of bikes sold in the USA are financed. They might not be able to afford the bike, but they can afford the payments - usually.

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Most of us Americans work for peanuts. We don't have the fat salaries like the Europeans and Aussies do. I pay cash for my used bikes, but buying new means financing.

Idaho Red Rocket 3 said:

Most of us Americans work for peanuts.

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Even post Jimmy Carter?.

Unless the Triumph key fob is special and can be totally turned off, it can be cloned even from outside the house if it is proximity fob.

Our daughter and her husband bought a brand new home in Colorado Springs in a very nice area when she was transferred to the Air Force Academy and he to Ft Carson. There was a lot of theft initially; break ins and thefts of high end cars from the garages both during the day and at night. The cops would many times not respond because they were distracted busting illegal marijuana grow operations. That's another story though.

They finally got the perps after a homeowner caught them and was fired at when he chased them. There is nothing like an exchange of gunfire in a high end neighborhood to get the police out. The perps were a bunch of educated, technically savvy and bored kids from well to do families. They would get up close to the house at night, receive the signal from the key fobs hanging inside the house, clone it and come back the next night to steal the high end cars. The cops recommended that homeowners get special RF blocker containers for key fobs. An empty soup can is apparently better than hanging the keys on a hook in the kitchen.

That sounds a lot like a manufacturer oversight.

My SD R fob wouldn't send a signal more than 2 feet
My BMW Fob is somewhere in the 2-3 foot range.

After that the dash lights up the key is out of range and restart is not possible. If the bike is off and powered down, you couldn't even turn the electronics on.

My Kia(car) if you are more than 1 foot from the door you can't use the keyless unlock buttons on the doors. So that is not transmitting far either

WyldCFH said:

That sounds a lot like a manufacturer oversight.

My SD R fob wouldn't send a signal more than 2 feet
My BMW Fob is somewhere in the 2-3 foot range.

After that the dash lights up the key is out of range and restart is not possible. If the bike is off and powered down, you couldn't even turn the electronics on.

My Kia(car) if you are more than 1 foot from the door you can't use the keyless unlock buttons on the doors. So that is not transmitting far either

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Apparently while the signal is not strong enough to start the vehicle, it can be copied from up to 30 feet away with the distance varying by manufacturer. I just did a quick web search on key fob vulnerabilities and found two articles on the subject, one in Forbes magazine and the other on The Crime Prevention Website, the later which I believe is Brit. .

This is the last para in the second article.

"The advice from Thatcham is as follows: If you have a vehicle with a keyless entry system, keep the key in a 'Faraday Cage' where the signal cannot escape. This is the same advice as given to us in relation to tap credit and debit cards.

A search online for an ‘RFID blocking case/wallet’, or a ‘Faraday cage vehicle key/fob’ should provide you with a selection of products.

I am very grateful to Mark Glazer of Redbridge Neighbourhood Watch for sending me this information, which was originally published by the police in Hillingdon in West London."

Dr.D said:

I believe a certain amount of debt and proper management is a good thing. The problem is to many people try to carry excessive debt.

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Well said Mel.

Navigator said:

Apparently while the signal is not strong enough to start the vehicle, it can be copied from up to 30 feet away with the distance varying by manufacturer. I just did a quick web search on key fob vulnerabilities and found two articles on the subject, one in Forbes magazine and the other on The Crime Prevention Website, the later which I believe is Brit. .

This is the last para in the second article.

"The advice from Thatcham is as follows: If you have a vehicle with a keyless entry system, keep the key in a 'Faraday Cage' where the signal cannot escape. This is the same advice as given to us in relation to tap credit and debit cards.

A search online for an ‘RFID blocking case/wallet’, or a ‘Faraday cage vehicle key/fob’ should provide you with a selection of products.

I am very grateful to Mark Glazer of Redbridge Neighbourhood Watch for sending me this information, which was originally published by the police in Hillingdon in West London."

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I thought the new Fobs are supposed to based on a rolling code, thus cloning the code from one transmission wouldn't work the next day because code would have changed several times by then. Did the young tech hoodlums figure out how to overcome that?

Kojack1970 said:

I thought the new Fobs are supposed to based on a rolling code, thus cloning the code from one transmission wouldn't work the next day because code would have changed several times by then. Did the young tech hoodlums figure out how to overcome that?

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Ayep, that is correct. Nowadays, a simple record and replay will not work.

My daughter's 2005 Mini Cooper has rolling codes -- and sometimes the fobs lose sync, and we have to go through the procedure to resync the fobs.

Fobs in general use the ISM bands -- 400 something MHz, 800 something MHz -- and some cars are set up for effectively nearfield only (I know Toyota uses this) at 125 MHz, a frequency which has significantly different propagation characteristics, and makes it far more difficult to conduct man-in-the-middle attacks.

For years, we said there was no way to add a sixth gear to our Rockets. Low and behold, a man did it - but it's still a non-trivial task and is not widespread.

So it is for attacking current key fobs.

Joesmoe said:

Ayep, that is correct. Nowadays, a simple record and replay will not work.

My daughter's 2005 Mini Cooper has rolling codes -- and sometimes the fobs lose sync, and we have to go through the procedure to resync the fobs.

Fobs in general use the ISM bands -- 400 something MHz, 800 something MHz -- and some cars are set up for effectively nearfield only (I know Toyota uses this) at 125 MHz, a frequency which has significantly different propagation characteristics, and makes it far more difficult to conduct man-in-the-middle attacks.

For years, we said there was no way to add a sixth gear to our Rockets. Low and behold, a man did it - but it's still a non-trivial task and is not widespread.

So it is for attacking current key fobs.

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Thanks and ouch, that second paragraph is outside of my technical abilities, lol

I love being old school.