Still not starting in cold whether. Anyone have idea what I can try next.

[barbagris]

Anyone have a idea of what else I can do? I want to ride the bike to work but I get off at 11 p.m. and by then it is cold and the bike won't start. Thanks for any suggestions you might have.

Let me see if I get this. You ride to work - park and when you come out it has no charge? After hours not days or weeks? - that's a serious parasitic drain or discharged battery.

YOU NEED A VOLTMETER/AMMETER to see if it's actually charging. And to check on drain.

A test - Ride in and when you stop - disconnect the battery. Then see what happens when you reconnect and hit the button. If it works you know you have a parasitic drain somewhere. This can be a multitude of things - But often a poor earth somewhere (need not be the BIG FAT CABLE) or a shagged diode somewhere - The voltage regulator maybe.

Any changes to stock? - filters/tune/pipes - any add-ons?.

Another option - though it's more a "fix" than "solution" - get a smallish LiFePo4 battery - wire it in parallel on a Q/D POWER (BIG AMPS) connector. Disconnect when you park reconnect when you start - and take it inside with you. This mix keeps VOLTS high (LiFePO4) and amps High (Lead Acid). This concept is used by a lot of Paramedic services to make sure ambulances start.

A standard starter should be quite capable of turning over a standard engine. There is a way to upgrade - scour the forum.

Also I'd fit a MANUAL switch that disables the lights until you've fired up.

 

[budman]

he's already put on bigger cables..starter motor upgrade from the link I provided would be my next step

 

[mully95]

Mine did the same thing the other day. It turned over fine but never fired off. I have a maintain charger hooked to it all the time.

I got my regular fast rate battery charger, hooked it to the battery, and the bike fired right up. First time this has ever happen.

It seems it had enough charge to turn over but didnt have enough to fire the coils.

 

[barbagris]

It seems it had enough charge to turn over but didnt have enough to fire the coils.

Very possible - The thing is that when you draw power from a battery it drops volts. As soon as you've less than 10V potential across the terminals you're pretty much doomed. And whilst you're sucking a Kilowatt - it'll drop FAST. Put on a 1.5Kilowatt starter - it'll drop faster. Especially in the cold - where the acid tends to react slower with the lead - thus releasing less energy.

Lead acid batteries TEND to try and maintain amperage at the expense of voltage. Lithium-Iron-Phosphate batteries tend to try and maintain Voltage at the expense of amperage.

Adding even a small LiFePO4 in parallel will allow the lead acid to pump out amps and keep system voltage up. There are a shed load of videos out on youtube where guys are firing up 2.5litre Diesels left outdoors in Winter Canada - using this trick.

You can also try using an insulating layer around the battery. Maybe closed cell foam? Charging warms them. If they stay warmer longer then they'll keep higher discharge efficiency longer. Take the layer off in summer!

 

[rocket51]

I think I will try insulating battery and relay. Sounds like that might help. Thanks to all for your impute.

 

[rocket51]

Let me see if I get this. You ride to work - park and when you come out it has no charge? After hours not days or weeks? - that's a serious parasitic drain or discharged battery.

Barbagris, I don't think the battery discharges because once it starts everything is fine, I can shut down and start again without problem. Battery always has 13.75 volts charge or more when I check it and I have a Shorai 540 cc amp battery. Its seems that cold whether does something to interfer with charge getting to starter. I am going to try your suggestion of insulation. If I continue having problem I will try removing cables and reinstalling at end of shift. Will I need to remove both positive and negative or will one suffice?[/QUOTE]

 

[Steel]

Only need to disconnect one to break the circuit.

 

[barbagris]

Barbagris, I don't think the battery discharges because once it starts everything is fine, I can shut down and start again without problem. Battery always has 13.75 volts charge or more when I check it and I have a Shorai 540 cc amp battery. Its seems that cold whether does something to interfer with charge getting to starter. I am going to try your suggestion of insulation. If I continue having problem I will try removing cables and reinstalling at end of shift. Will I need to remove both positive and negative or will one suffice?

One will do. Earth is generally EASIER and SAFER.

This is difficult to diagnose remotely. I'd missed your using a Lithium. changes the rules of engagement a bit.

There is evidence that suggests a LiFePO4 battery needs to have some resistance load put across it before it will DUMP discharge when cold. I've not seen it personally - but I understand the chemistry theory.

But it's important to note that an LiFePO4 battery will show high voltage until it's almost drained - whereas a lead acid will drop voltage gradually as it drains. Also HIGHER voltage than a lead acid. It's the nature of the technology and chemistry involved.

How far is the ride to work?- are we sure the alternator is replacing charge used for a prior start correctly?

There are two relays involved. A small one that is activated by the starter button and this in turn passes LOW current to the starter solenoid. If the starter goes CLACK and spins it's NOT the small one. If it chatters - then it can be as the system voltage has dropped enough for the small relay not to function.

It could be burnt points inside the STARTER SOLENOID. ime generally speaking - RARE. Worn Brushes on the starter itself - more common.

Once it starts - the alternator maintains enough power to run - but will only use residual wattage to recharge the battery. However it will put a surface charge on the battery. This will certainly last 10-15minutes. But it's not a deep charge.

It's perfectly easy to load the electrics so that the alternator only has milliwatts of energy available to recharge the battery - but as it's actually charging (albeit marginally) the charging system will flag things as OK. If you have lights, aux lights, heated grips - some other gubbins on - then it's possible this is a factor.

Also there comes a point where as engine rpms rise the total demand engine+other exceeds what is needed to charge.

I've seen this on the R3 with a full load - and as rpms went up past 3500 the voltage warning indicator I have fitted went into "OK but not charging" mode. The more rpms - the higher the demand - but once you've hit 2000rpms-ish the alternator is already at full supply. Note that OK but not charging is not seen as discharging - so the charging system sees everything as OK.

I fixed this by reducing the "other load" - fitted LED lighting.

Bear in mind it could well be a mix of several small things. But to really see, what you are need tools - VOLTMETER and AMMETER wired and visible whilst riding.

 

[Tripps]

There is something wrong somewhere if the bike won't start when cold, it is not endemic to the bike. Mine starts fine down to 20 F, I never tried it colder, even after adding the Carpenter package. Lithium batteries are known to have problems with cold weather, I ride all year, so I would never consider one. Supposedly if you turn the key on for a minute before you try to start it, the draw of the lights and anything else "invigorates", for lack of a better word (maybe warms it?), the battery.

However you said you have been through 4 batteries, so unless they were all Lithium, there is some other problem, for sure.

Oh, and I am running the original, stock, 3 1/2 year old battery, and I rarely put a tender on it, unless I go more than 3 weeks without riding in the dead of winter.

 

[budman]

There is something wrong somewhere if the bike won't start when cold, it is not endemic to the bike

I beg to differ..maybe not on all of these rockets, but it sure is on a lot of them..mine was one..the upgrades fixed the problem for me..the whole wiring system on these rockets suck.