starter

vindex1963 said:

Could the starter relay do the same?

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The relay powers the starter solenoid so it either works or doesn't.

The solenoid on the other hand has some large copper contacts that pit badly causing some internal resistance that reduces starter power. I would remove the whole starter and take the back cover off the solenoid (attached to the top of the starter). Check for pitting. Here is a link to what you should see. Inexpensive Starter Replacement Look at pics in posts 54,
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Post 105, showing solenoid attached to starter.
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Post 129 showing both bad and new contacts
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Post 157 showing another solenoid with pitted contact posts and pitted plunger
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Thank you to the numerous fellows that posted these pics that I've borrowed for this thread.

Unless you have modified your engine, you should not have to increase starter size unless you want some future peace of mind and have extra $$ to spend. My stock starter and original battery spins my engine over with no problem and it's a 2012.

You stated that on the 2nd push of the start button, the engine spins fine. This confirms that the starter motor is ok and the contacts in the solenoid made good contact "that one time". However when it doesn't spin well, then the solenoid contacts are encountering too much resistance or pitting.

Check the contacts. It's cheap.

I have to pull the starter to take the solenoid cover off?

As I recall, no, but it's only 2 bolts to pull the starter and very easy to get to.

The only issue with leaving starter attached to engine.... might be hard to get to inside contacts.

vindex1963 said:

I don't know what I would ask for. Is this the starter I read about that needs to be machined to fit?

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This is what I followed...

Inexpensive Starter Replacement

vindex1963 said:

Had it happen the last two cold starts. I hit the starter button and it turns over like the battery is bad then starts clicking. I let off the starter button and press it again and it turns the engine over fast and it starts. I hate to ask but where is the starter solenoid? I cleaned the starter connections and the battery connections then it did it again.

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typical case of low/bad battery
if u put a volt meter across the bat and hit the starter u will see that it is dropping below 10 volts.
when it drops below 10 then it disengages the starter then the bat will come back to12 then it disengages again**** that is why u get the clicking.

the guys r correct doubled up on the ground wire improved then did the upgraded starter much better now worked even better after the starter got seated in brushes.

TURBO200R4 said:

typical case of low/bad battery
if u put a volt meter across the bat and hit the starter u will see that it is dropping below 10 volts.
when it drops below 10 then it disengages the starter then the bat will come back to12 then it disengages again**** that is why u get the clicking.

the guys r correct doubled up on the ground wire improved then did the upgraded starter much better now worked even better after the starter got seated in brushes.

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The battery is a Battery Tender Lithium, I messaged the original owner and he said it's four years old. After the second try both times the starter spun just fine. The new battery will be here tomorrow. I'm going to remove the starter and see how the contacts of the solenoid look. New starter is under $100 by the links maybe it would be smart to just replace it.

That's usually my policy, of it's not expensive, however long the old one would have lasted, a new one gives you however many years more of no trouble. I run my trucks 250,000 or more miles, starters and alternators I consider consumables, like brakes or batteries although they last way longer than they used to.

Well now it makes ssense, Lithium Battery! Don't waste your time with Solenoid disassembly, it won't fix the root cause in your case.

When you hit the button the first time and get a click, the draw is warming the battery internally. Lithiums make MORE CCA the second or third time you draw on them in this manner, when it's around 35-40 degrees out you'll need to hit the starter more like 5-6 yes to get it to warm internally enough to give you full CCA and start.

I had 3 different brand Lithiums in my Daytona across 7 years, every single one behaved like this. Swapped back to an AGM last year and starts first press every press now.

This is primary reason LiFEPO4 and LiPO are not yet suitable for mainstream use, with one exception...Antigravity brand are ass kicking chicken. I have their XP-3 jump box and it starts anything first try effortlessly.

vindex1963 said:

I have to pull the starter to take the solenoid cover off?

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no but if you do remove the started clean around the mating surface first if real dirty! The nose of the starter goes through the crankcase to the flywheel! Oil may leak a little and there is an o ring gasket!