Reducing Decel Popping?

[barbagris]

So you'd suggest either PCV / AT install or hit the dyno with a direct ECU update NOW, anything to remap properly? Then update as I go with the mods...If I went the PCV route, does this mean I can map myself (using AT) or would it still be best getting dyno runs in? Just trying to understand where the costs might be...

OK - IF you have access to a Dyno-Guy who really knows what they are doing with TuneECU - Then DYNO IS BEST.

But comments from forums and from my experience here is that they are few and far between. I'm sure Rob (@Claviger ) has a Q&A test to weed out all but the very best. All that Alpha-N, transition ritchening jargon that will generate FUD in all but those who understand. And from what I have gleaned with some 8 years of following R3 tuning advice from some of the guys than KNOW - the R3 is a wee bit awkward in some areas - VERY FEW Dyno Gods get a full positive reference on here - there is (I suspect) a good reason.

Most seem ONLY to tune for WOT (power baby). So they ignore the L tables. This is (imo) ignoring a valuable part of the ECU possibilities that Triumph put there for a reason.

The PCV with A/T does however offer tuning functions beyond that. AND significantly you can see the results and ANALYSE them. If you add the POD300 then you can also LOG a mass of data. The PCV will allow you to do a different map per gear without breaking a sweat. The PCV will allow you to re-map using Manifold pressure.

If you have the TIME and an analytical mindset then the PCV-A/T-POD route is imo a very good one (but as I chose this - I would say this).

If you decide to go the self help route - you NEED data. Lots and LOTS of data. Also bear in mind that apparently insignificant things make a difference. So logging matters.

I live at 700plus metres altitude - often ride at 1000m and maybe down to 650m - A non adapting map generated at sea level will have me running WRONG.

Also temperature. I noted early on a distinct change in how the stock ECU reacts as it crosses specific temperature thresholds. iirc around the 25-26°C barrier. If (like me) you can have sub 25° mornings and over 35° afternoons it makes it all a chore. This, in the UK, is maybe less of an issue

I started using the Torque App and a cheepo bluetooth box on the OBD connector. Gave me TPS, RPM and KMH - This was enough to start and via TPS tuning I'd say I got about as close as I could. The PCV-A/T made it a lot easier and for me importantly allowed me to do a map per gear - because I do not ride the same in 5th as in 3rd. Most of us do not at a guess. But yeah lets tune the same for all gears

I am in the throes of changing to manifold based tuning and have to say that SO FAR this way outclasses TPS based tuning for general road riding. It is simply smoother. Rob was marvellous this weekend in helping me diagnose a sensor calibration issue and also making some AFR modification suggestions. With a bit of luck those will get a decent run tomorrow. Thursday is my play day.

THE DIFFERENCE is that the PVC-A/T will automatically start to readapt straight away when you make changes - like the RAMAIR or a new header. There are things you will still need to tweak with Tune ECU - but more as setting an environment to which the PCV will then modify fuelling accordingly. We never stop learning.

 

[kaivalagi]

Thanks for that @barbagris , a lot to consider....I'm gonna stop messing for now, I need the rear tyre changed and also need to do an oil / filter change too really so will get busy with those whilst figuring out what is next....

BTW, this should probably be a new thread but as it might have something to do with what I've been up to since the new exhaust it might be better asking here. I noticed along the RHS valve cover gasket seam there was a very small presence of oil yesterday, no drips just a shine that does result in a little oil on the fingers when wiped...

Now it was really hot weather (30C+) and I was doing lots of 12 min resets and blasts to test remaps which will have resulted in a very hot engine block, I am wondering if this is a side effect of the mod and the extra pressure on the engine or just a result of the hot weather, pattern of use and not using the bike much since last autumn? I note that it's quite a common thing that many have resolved, here's a pic that hopefully shows what I am seeing which I took yesterday, the oil is present along the whole side of the engine and there are no kinks etc, looks as it should apart from the oil:

I've cleaned it now and will watch for more, if it occurs again I am thinking I need to just try and torque up the hex bolts to the 10NM limit and see if they budge or not, if they do then wait and see if it's cured, if they don't then a new gasket and attempt to get a triumph warranty fix (it's a 2013 bike with 9K on it though)


Should I be overly concerned at this point? Could this just be a result of the type of activity the last couple of days?

 

[barbagris]

Should I be overly concerned at this point? Could this just be a result of the type of activity the last couple of days?

If you should then I should be very very worried. Mine has days where it moistens on that seal line and in the UK in May did worse still - I'd just keep an eye on it.

 

[kaivalagi]

If you should then I should be very very worried. Mine has days where it moistens on that seal line and in the UK in May did worse still - I'd just keep an eye on it.

That's a relief!

I've used it as a excuse to buy some new tools anyway... can't keep borrowing torque wrenches or guessing with my hands, so a 1/4" 5-25nm and 1/2" 30-220nm are heading my way along with some new allen key sockets and a 24mm socket for the rear wheel lol...

 

[Nat67]

That's a relief!

I've used it as a excuse to buy some new tools anyway... can't keep borrowing torque wrenches or guessing with my hands, so a 1/4" 5-25nm and 1/2" 30-220nm are heading my way along with some new allen key sockets and a 24mm socket for the rear wheel lol...

Ah tools , you gotta just love tools !

 

[sonny]

Mine will do the same over 100 degrees. Under 100 degrees no leaks at all.

 

[kaivalagi]

Mine will do the same over 100 degrees. Under 100 degrees no leaks at all.

Thanks for the details....might just set the fan threshold a little lower, although to be fair after 1 more month I wont see high ambient temps again for a long long time so probably not any more issues either lol Over 30C in the UK for more than one day at a time, there has to be climate change afoot hahaha

 

[kaivalagi]

@barbagris / all, Just noticed, after digging around the tune resources on the site for inspiration, that Hans0's tunes have F-L Switches with more zeroes and L tables with 0% TP settings higher than zero (the OEM maps have zeroes for all rpm which might partially explain the decel popping)

I know you mentioned the F/L switching before but I didn't think more on it until now, in the past I had not noticed this difference with Hans0's maps to the OEM aftermarket one......I think my eyes have just opened a little to the adjustments needed...

I really have to get a new tyre sorted on the back of the bike before I can remap and try but does taking a Hans0 map for a more open machine (e.g. his +10% hex file in resources) and lowering the F tables back towards the 20776 map values make sense...then I've have the F - L switches and L table mods but not the overly rich settings for the fuel?

It's hard to explain in forum posts but the below are some screen shots (F, F-L and L data for 20776 and Hanso's +10% tune from resources after I've reduced the F table by 10% again)...

https://imgur.com/a/fSNwEwc

It's a shame Hans0 hadn't come back with a tune following my PM's, I had started conversations but never received a tune which may well have helped a lot. I am assuming he's not about for a while...I wonder what he might have provided me, I am hoping something fairly similar to what I am thinking...

More map compares are needed I think, it'll help me understand the adjustments being made for different setups...if only the TuneECU compare function was better than it is

Any thoughts / feedback will be greatfully received...nothing is being uploaded to my bike for a while now anyway, but if I can use the time to understand things better it'll be useful in the longer run when I need a decent default map to work from with the dyno guys / PCV.

edit: comparing more Hanso tunes and the F-L Switch and L tables are the same, with only F tables differing, I think I may be onto something? This is where you all tell me you thought I was doing this already lol....

 

[Nat67]

Thanks for the details....might just set the fan threshold a little lower, although to be fair after 1 more month I wont see high ambient temps again for a long long time so probably not any more issues either lol Over 30C in the UK for more than one day at a time, there has to be climate change afoot hahaha

Ah yes hot , hot , hot ! The back end has stepped out twice in spectacular style on me these past few days , due to the tar melting on the dressings .
Won't hurt to lower temp a couple degrees , my fan cuts in at 98 . Also have the rev limiter upped whilst they are in there !

 

[barbagris]

I based my earlier maps on Hansos V1 and V2 - Which are fuel/TPS based so the F/L was probably altered on his maps to push it all into TPS and RPM based. My thinking was always ore towards LOAD based tuning - but until Rob's input I had no way to match the PCV to this aim. Now I can - and today logged some more data - which Rob and I still have to analyse.