Oil tank draining

[Mike Rocket]

Ok so the O-ring you removed was it torn or damaged any. Do you think you were missing any of the the O-ring? I ask for thinking purpose. If it had a piece torn off I can see it holding the anti leak down valve open. But also particals could be holding the nozzels open. I need to locate the one I had for the oil pump. Dang memory, but let me get a wrench and tear the one coming out of the engine case to take a look see. It will take a lityle but cause I'm still in my jammies give me 5 minutes.

The o ring I replaced showed no sign of damage and was not brittle or broken. It looks complete and flexible and looked the same as the new one. I even measured it for comparison and it comes up the same.
Thanks

 

[warp9.9]

I have it out but still contemplating since yours sounds like a fair amount of of leak down . Although I must admit I never paid attention to how much mine leaks over night. Anyway rest assured that I am getting a third cup and pondering on it. I'm still leaning towards the anti leak down valve which is accessible by removing the sump pan. Now I wishing I would have kept my extra oil sump pan

 

[Mike Rocket]

I have it out but still contemplating since yours sounds like a fair amount of of leak down . Although I must admit I never paid attention to how much mine leaks over night. Anyway rest assured that I am getting a third cup and pondering on it. I'm still leaning towards the anti leak down valve which is accessible by removing the sump pan. Now I wishing I would have kept my extra oil sump pan

Thanks, I appreciate your information.

 

[Mike Rocket]

Thanks, I appreciate your information.

I am thinking that a lot of owners do not look in the oil tank very often and just start up the bike and go. Maybe I should do that too. It's just that possible engine damage worries me as it would be expensive.

 

[warp9.9]

I am thinking that a lot of owners do not look in the oil tank very often and just start up the bike and go. Maybe I should do that too. It's just that possible engine damage worries me as it would be expensive.

yes you could be right If it is the nozzle it won't hurt a thing If its the one way valve it will still function properly. I do not expect the relief valve yet because it is attached right to the pump casting area and opens when the pressure exceeds the setting. I have to re read and see if there is a number on that. To be honest I never check mine until I have run it. Let me give some more thought to this.

 

[warp9.9]

@Mike Rocket , did you verify you put the crush washer gasket on the plug? I've seen them stay on the sump pan and then drop in th oil? Without that I would think if someone torqued it properly it could create a problem its go to be almost 2 mm thick or so. I'm not sure as I never measured one. Again I am also trying to figure it out from the it just started all of a sudden. Or is it you just started looking in the tank before you fire her up. Which you didn't do normally. Another side note if your going to monitor the tank oil level for leaking the when you done riding let her idle abit to make sure you have scavenged all the excess oil in the sump thats been sloshing around. I can also run down to the barn and rip the pressure pump out of another engine. Just have to tear the clutch basket out . But will look at can the nozzle be removed from the pump with a clutch basket in and the clutch cover still in place. I doubt it but heck its worth the looksee anyway. If you can answer the crush washer question? Or just now I thought what if you accidently install two of them then the O-ring wouldn't make the seal contact its meant to. Anyone else's brain cells crackling

Ok upon checking you will be able to tell if you used two plug washers or none on the oil tank drain plug. It would be neat if you noticed two of them buggers on it. If so you will see it. That drain plug is the only one that is not recessed in the sump pan.

 

[Mike Rocket]

@Mike Rocket , did you verify you put the crush washer gasket on the plug? I've seen them stay on the sump pan and then drop in th oil? Without that I would think if someone torqued it properly it could create a problem its go to be almost 2 mm thick or so. I'm not sure as I never measured one. Again I am also trying to figure it out from the it just started all of a sudden. Or is it you just started looking in the tank before you fire her up. Which you didn't do normally. Another side note if your going to monitor the tank oil level for leaking the when you done riding let her idle abit to make sure you have scavenged all the excess oil in the sump thats been sloshing around. I can also run down to the barn and rip the pressure pump out of another engine. Just have to tear the clutch basket out . But will look at can the nozzle be removed from the pump with a clutch basket in and the clutch cover still in place. I doubt it but heck its worth the looksee anyway. If you can answer the crush washer question? Or just now I thought what if you accidently install two of them then the O-ring wouldn't make the seal contact its meant to. Anyone else's brain cells crackling

Ok upon checking you will be able to tell if you used two plug washers or none on the oil tank drain plug. It would be neat if you noticed two of them buggers on it. If so you will see it. That drain plug is the only one that is not recessed in the sump pan.

Yes, the crush washer is in place and there is only one fitted.
Thanks again for your help.

 

[warp9.9]

No problem bud

Yes, the crush washer is in place and there is only one fitted.
Thanks again for your help.

ok Mike, I figured most of the oil pathway the only other spray nozzle is in the rear of the engine. That being said I would suspect the lower pump nozzle spraying the clutch basket (I verified mine was dripping last time I was inside) then I would think the oneway valve anti-leak down valve. So if you want my opinion the first thing I would do is a couple monitoring checks. You will need to make sure when you done riding you let the bike idle for a minute like your going to check the oil. This will make sure most of the sump oil is pumped into the tank. Then shut her down and check oil height on the dip stick. Then in the next day check the oil drop. You might have done this already but if your just shutting her down when you done riding your not sure how much is still in the sump. I suspect it might show less drop. But that doesn't mean its not dropping. Just establishing a good base line. If you still don't like what you see, then I would order a sump gasket and a clutch cover gasket. Might be about 25.00 USD. Anyway if you have never dropped the sump pan. Then knowing there is machining swarf in the sump screens slowing the return of o to the tank. I would first drop the sump. Why would I do that you might ask. Well as stated first to clean the sump and screens real good ( the manual says renew screen bolts I would just clean the sump pan and screens with brake cleaner because it evaporates. Sump bolt and holes also) the using medium strength blue thread locker on the screen bolts install the cleaned components. The reach up and pull out the anti leak down valve it has a O-ring that make it fit snuggle in its bore. Check O-ring for damage (it can leak down slowly from that). Then take the valve apart and make sure its clean and doesn't have any FOD in it. Clean it and oil the O-ring and install the valve. From here you can check for leaks by adding some oil to the tank say a quart. If the leak down valve is leaking you will see it. You can also look from underneath and see the clutch nozzle to inspect for dribbling. I suspect there would also eventually some small leaks from the main and possibly the rod bearings but not much there is clearance on the bearings. Consider it normal. You mentioned a spray bar on the timing chain and guide but there is none. The oil flows off the head in front in the chain area lubricating the guides and chain. ( so if you park up hill not all the oil will drain to the sump depending on angle no biggy just pointing it out) anyway that is what I would do after a double check the tank oil drop over night you might find its not as much as you thought. Plus you didn't have to pull the front off or drain the coolant. Also keep in mind shafts that are full of oil like the input shaft to the transmission will leak down thru the lifter pies hole and the 90 degree holes on it and the torsional damper shaft. And the transmission output shaft. This adds to the oil you think is draining from the tank but is not. Anyway I'm sure I will think of some other reasons one thinks the oil is leaking down but I do not think its serious.
Any question feel free to ask I even figured out the oil feed route to the transmission. Now for another cup

 

[Mike Rocket]

No problem bud

ok Mike, I figured most of the oil pathway the only other spray nozzle is in the rear of the engine. That being said I would suspect the lower pump nozzle spraying the clutch basket (I verified mine was dripping last time I was inside) then I would think the oneway valve anti-leak down valve. So if you want my opinion the first thing I would do is a couple monitoring checks. You will need to make sure when you done riding you let the bike idle for a minute like your going to check the oil. This will make sure most of the sump oil is pumped into the tank. Then shut her down and check oil height on the dip stick. Then in the next day check the oil drop. You might have done this already but if your just shutting her down when you done riding your not sure how much is still in the sump. I suspect it might show less drop. But that doesn't mean its not dropping. Just establishing a good base line. If you still don't like what you see, then I would order a sump gasket and a clutch cover gasket. Might be about 25.00 USD. Anyway if you have never dropped the sump pan. Then knowing there is machining swarf in the sump screens slowing the return of o to the tank. I would first drop the sump. Why would I do that you might ask. Well as stated first to clean the sump and screens real good ( the manual says renew screen bolts I would just clean the sump pan and screens with brake cleaner because it evaporates. Sump bolt and holes also) the using medium strength blue thread locker on the screen bolts install the cleaned components. The reach up and pull out the anti leak down valve it has a O-ring that make it fit snuggle in its bore. Check O-ring for damage (it can leak down slowly from that). Then take the valve apart and make sure its clean and doesn't have any FOD in it. Clean it and oil the O-ring and install the valve. From here you can check for leaks by adding some oil to the tank say a quart. If the leak down valve is leaking you will see it. You can also look from underneath and see the clutch nozzle to inspect for dribbling. I suspect there would also eventually some small leaks from the main and possibly the rod bearings but not much there is clearance on the bearings. Consider it normal. You mentioned a spray bar on the timing chain and guide but there is none. The oil flows off the head in front in the chain area lubricating the guides and chain. ( so if you park up hill not all the oil will drain to the sump depending on angle no biggy just pointing it out) anyway that is what I would do after a double check the tank oil drop over night you might find its not as much as you thought. Plus you didn't have to pull the front off or drain the coolant. Also keep in mind shafts that are full of oil like the input shaft to the transmission will leak down thru the lifter pies hole and the 90 degree holes on it and the torsional damper shaft. And the transmission output shaft. This adds to the oil you think is draining from the tank but is not. Anyway I'm sure I will think of some other reasons one thinks the oil is leaking down but I do not think its serious.
Any question feel free to ask I even figured out the oil feed route to the transmission. Now for another cup

Good evening warp9.9
Thank you very much for the information and your time in researching this for me. It's so much better to talk to somebody like you who has done this work before. The service manual doesn't say a single thing about this and the drawings aren't clear. Triumph must know about it. The dealers won't give this detailed information out either.
I have been carefully measuring the oil drop on 2 separate occasions over 6 days in total using a home made dipstick and marking it off clearly. It drops about 1" over 24 hours and that takes the oil level below the pickup pipe inlet in 3 days. I also don't just switch off after a run and park up as by the time I have turned it round to park in the garage it has been slow running for at least 2 or 3 minutes.
I have decided to remove the sump plate and check the items you have suggested and I will renew the non return valve. I don't think the oil pressure relief valve can cause this.
You say you can see the spray bar once the sump plate is off so that is a bonus as I do not really want to strip the front of the engine down. I would like to see the oil loss dripping down so I will top up the tank and watch to see which one or both leak down. Needless to say I have never dropped a R3 sump plate.
I am going to order the parts this weekend from Triumph.
I intend to start the job later in the coming week and will post what I find.
Thanks again for your help and photographs.

 

[warp9.9]

I would just clean the non return valve its just a snap ring to take it apart. Yellow arrow, green arrow points to the area you can see to check the oil spray jets.

when I get to my computer I'll post a sump picture showing the bolts and the one usually missed.