Not Happy! 3rd brake bleed required.

Correcting an error - I was misguided by the numbers @Mighty Mouse stated:

They did not change 22 & 34 but 22 & 17 - 34 is some kind of sensor.

To say it in words: they changed both brake lines responsible for the rear brake:

- the one from the pedal to the modulator
- the one from the modulator to the rear brake
 
I just emailed Hermy's to see what part #23 is and if it and part #34 (brake line) can be acquired. I'll update when I get a response......



This is new rear brake hose part number 121$ being replaced on rear brake issue bikes by triumph, 133$ is old hose part number being fit from factory.

Its interesting to note that new part is 10$ cheaper than old one.
 

one of my friend in Europe is working on making his own steel brake lines which he purchased from HEL and throwing away these OEM brake lines. He is a retired engineer,
so far he has bled brakes like 100 times, he needs brake bleed every other day.
He is also purchased OEM rear master cylinder service kit from Japan to rule out air inlet from rear master cylinder.
Lets see.....
 



This is new rear brake hose part number 121$ being replaced on rear brake issue bikes by triumph, 133$ is old hose part number being fit from factory.

Its interesting to note that new part is 10$ cheaper than old one.

Objection - T2024744 is the new part. They must not sell the other one anymore

In my case my Shop installed:

- T2021611
- T2024744
- T2025808
- T3550229
 

JMO
I would put my money on it being the cups in the rear brake cylinder or the brake bleed screw not seating correct
 
JMO
I would put my money on it being the cups in the rear brake cylinder or the brake bleed screw not seating correct
Not leaking brake fluid anywhere but air can get in a pressurized hydraulic system? Come on. If outside air was being introduced at any point the level in the master cylinder would rise to compensate for it. IDK, seems like it is boiling out of the brake fluid to me over time with no way for it to get back to the master cylinder and escape to atmosphere. So the volume is the same with trapped air that must be forced out from that high spot at the modulator. Don't bleed it forcibly enough and the air bubbles keep rising past the brake fluid collecting at the top of the engine. Maybe one batch of euro bikes used defective pipes that had to be replaced? The mystery continues.
 
Indeed the mystery is very deep. But using racing brake fluid with 594 F boiling point didn't change anything, at that temperature all plastic components and cables around should have melted but are ok. My bike consumes some fluid and I purge the air on a regular basis. The nipple is a one-way spring loaded gasket-sealed unit.
 
Thanks for contributing to the conversation. Your bike sounds normal. As the pads and rotors wear the system consumes some brake fluid. If you are still having to purge regularly it sounds like you aren't getting it all out to me. Good enough for a while until the compression ratio of gas to liquid takes more than the master cylinder can compensate, pump it again. Bleed it again. Harder, longer....

Sounds like you have Speed Nipples installed with the springs to prevent air during bleeding. They still have to be torqued on the metal to metal bevel that seals off. The springs are just used during bleeding. Tighten them back up.

An interesting read on brake lines for us in the US.
Brake hoses are the most government-regulated components on a vehicle. Anyone making brake assemblies must be registered with the Department of Transportation (DOT). All aftermarket hose, fittings and complete hoses must conform to FMVSS 106 and SAE J1401. These tests are demanding and often exceed what a vehicle will see in the real world.

The DOT standard in a nutshell says brake hoses must be flexible in a wide range of temperatures while having a predictable expansion rate so the pedal feel and ABS response is the same in winter and summer. It also specifies that hoses must be able to bend and twist at certain angles without collapsing, kinking or bursting.

FMVSS 106 and SAE J1401 do not specify construction or materials. These documents outline a test procedure that completed hose must pass.

These tests and standards include:

• Markings: Each hydraulic brake hose, except the original hoses, have at least two clearly identifiable stripes of at least 1/16th of an inch in width, placed on opposite sides of the brake hose parallel to its longitudinal axis. These are called “torque stripes.” One stripe may be interrupted by the information printed on the hose. These are to prevent twisting during assembly and installation.
• Burst Pressures: The hydraulic brake hose assembly must withstand water pressure of 4,000 psi for two minutes without rupture. Hose that is 1/8 inch, 3 mm, or smaller in diameter must be tested at 7,000 psi.
• Whip Testing: Brake hoses are continuously bent on a flexing machine for 35 hours at pressure.
• Tensile Strength: A hydraulic brake hose assembly must withstand a pull of 325 pounds without separation of the hose from its end fittings during a slow pull test, and shall withstand a pull of 370 pounds without separation of the hose from its end fittings during a fast pull test.
• Cold Resistance: A brake hose is chilled to a temperature below minus 49º F for 70 hours shall not show cracks visible without magnification when bent around a cylinder.
• Chemical Resistance: In order to test the hose’s chemical resistance to brake fluid, the hose is subjected to a temperature of 248 degrees Fahrenheit for 70 hours while filled with SAE “Compatibility Fluid.” After this the hose is subjected to a 4,000 psi burst test.
• Ozone Resistance: A brake hose assembly is exposed to ozone for 70 hours at 104° F. Any cracks seen at a specific magnification is ground for failure.
• Fitting Corrosion Resistance: After 24 hours of exposure to salt spray, a hydraulic brake hose end fitting must show no base metal corrosion on the end fitting surface except where crimping or the application of labeling information has caused displacement of the protective coating. What FMVSS 106 does not test for is damage that can take place over a longer period than 35 or 70 hours. It also does not take into account “acts of God” like impacts with road debris and installation errors.

There is not a recommended replacement interval for brake hoses. Brake hose conditions differ from vehicle, drivers and the environment. Inspection is the only way to spot a problem before a brake failure.
Brake hoses should be inspected visually and with your hands. It might be helpful to have someone pump the brake pedal to spot a defective brake hose. Failure typically occurs at the ends of the hose. This is where a hose flexes due to suspension/steering movement. It is also exposed to damage from debris and heat from the brakes.
 
just an example
my 07 is 16 years old with a little over 50,000 miles
it has been setting off an on for about a year and finally needed a breake bleed.
from what i have heard i don't think that there is any dought the system from heating and cooling is drawing in air through cups. (may be improper size or to rough bore, ect)
now if you have a little air in the rear cylinder and a so-so brake when it gets hot the air will expand and displace the fluid so then the pedal will then go to the stop/bottom with very little brake.
jmo
if it does the problem once a year bleed the rear brake
if it does the problem once a month then install the kit and check the bore surface.
hth