No Spark No Fire

[tdragger]

Checked the ground. It was OK. Cleaned connections anyway.

Mmmmmm sounds familiar. I went thru a similar issue while on a long distance trip. In the morning it got harder and harder to start but once going seemed ok. Then I simply couldn't get her going without flattening the battery.
Checked everything. I was convinced it was a fuel issue as if I poured fuel into the bodies it would fire. Cracked fuel line banjo bolt under tank and turned key. Fuel everywhere so I must have fuel ?
Yes I had fuel but did I have pressure ? No pressure no injector pulse. It dawned that I had not heard the regulator go into bypass in the tank. Pulled fuel rail, stuck in bucket of fuel and powered up. Bingo, O ring joining regulator to rail failed thus fuel pissed out and no fuel pressure. Flow yes but absolute pressure no.
Prior to this I pretty much dismantled the bike searching for an issue, even had the top off for valve clearances and had just about given up when the light came on. 20 cent part...... Good luck

I'm not sure that I understand this. What sound should I be listening for? Also, I'm not following where the regulator joins to the fuel rail. Which specific O ring are you referring to. My symptoms are certainly similar.

 

[BillB]

At my wits end on this one. 2006 Rocket Standard. ~74,000 miles. Won't start. No detectable spark.

For most of this year the bike has been running strong. No issues.

Changed spark plugs in late July. Started to detect a miss while rolling down the highway. It became harder and harder to start during the fall.

Went to the Maggie Valley run in October and had a lot of problems starting on the cold mornings. Had to resort to a blast of starter fluid to get home.

Now the bike will not start under any conditions.

Checked and cleaned the crankshaft position sensor.

Air = pulled the filters. Open throttle bodies. Air OK.
Fuel = drained the tank and put in fresh gas. Get a gas smell when turning over.
Spark = Changed the plugs again. Old plugs covered in black soot. Cleaned and crimped the coil leads. Tried to check for spark against the head but didn't see any sign of a spark.
Tune = loaded the 20226 TORS tune with no effect.

Starter turns the bike over like a mad man so that isn't the issue.

What do I do now?

Hey James, if you spray the filters like you did in Maggie Valley does it want to start or still DOA?

I have seen a lot of sensors on cars turn to crud and cause problems without setting the check engine light. While I haven't had to do any diag on a rocket it should be similar to any other modern engine. One of the small wires at the coils should have 12v with the key on, use a test light to check it to make sure that it is delivering good amps. If that checks out good probe the other small terminal and hit the starter. The light should pulse on and off as the system delivers ground pulses to the coils to fire them. (you might need to the clamp on the light hooked to the positive battery terminal for this but try it hooked to ground first) Unplug them first to find the one that has 12v on it as they both will if they are hooked to the coil.

If the light does not pulse then there is no signal coming to the coils to fire them. Probe either wire of a fuel injector with the test light and crank the engine. The light should flash on and off on this test also as the injectors should be getting the trigger to fire.

If neither the coils nor the injectors are getting a trigger pulse I would back probe the crank sensor with a scope and see what kind of signal it is producing. If you don't have a scope and a crank sensor isn't too expensive I would be tempted to throw one at it.

Edit by me: If it does want to start with added fuel I would look in the direction of a fuel pressure/volume issue first and not go off on safari with a test light

 

[kipper]

James ,the first thing I'd be trying is to see if your getting a spark at the plugs before I went looking at the fuel system.

 

[tdragger]

Hey James, if you spray the filters like you did in Maggie Valley does it want to start or still DOA?

I have seen a lot of sensors on cars turn to crud and cause problems without setting the check engine light. While I haven't had to do any diag on a rocket it should be similar to any other modern engine. One of the small wires at the coils should have 12v with the key on, use a test light to check it to make sure that it is delivering good amps. If that checks out good probe the other small terminal and hit the starter. The light should pulse on and off as the system delivers ground pulses to the coils to fire them. (you might need to the clamp on the light hooked to the positive battery terminal for this but try it hooked to ground first) Unplug them first to find the one that has 12v on it as they both will if they are hooked to the coil.

If the light does not pulse then there is no signal coming to the coils to fire them. Probe either wire of a fuel injector with the test light and crank the engine. The light should flash on and off on this test also as the injectors should be getting the trigger to fire.

If neither the coils nor the injectors are getting a trigger pulse I would back probe the crank sensor with a scope and see what kind of signal it is producing. If you don't have a scope and a crank sensor isn't too expensive I would be tempted to throw one at it.

Edit by me: If it does want to start with added fuel I would look in the direction of a fuel pressure/volume issue first and not go off on safari with a test light

Thanks, Bill. Even starter fluid spray doesn't help anymore.

Thanks for the tips on probing the coils and injectors.

 

[tdragger]

James ,the first thing I'd be trying is to see if your getting a spark at the plugs before I went looking at the fuel system.

I used new plugs and tried resting the side against the head but didn't get a spark. I don't have an inline tester.

 

[Loonitick]

Is it injecting?

If nothing is happening could be a problem with the crank sensor, loose connector or the sensor not giving a signal. Unlikely to be the cam position sensor, usually an engine with no crank sensor with start eventually.

If you are getting injected fuel, sounds like you are with the blackened spank plugs, i would want to check power supply and earth to the coils (may well be earthed through the ECU, don't have the wiring diagram available off hand). Sounds like a lacking spark, with none of them firing you have to start looking at what they have in common.

Let us know how it goes.

 

[TURBO200R4]

take a volt meter turn on ign and check all fuses for 12 volts. while cranking check ea fuse if u get one thats less than 9 volts u have a problem on that circuit.
if u have the info i would check the coil circuit first.
like some one said u can check volts at the coils.

 

[MRJ]

I guess an easy way to start is simply pour a little fuel into the throttle bodies. If she fires then we are the right track.
The fuel rail is inside the tank and houses the fuel pump, filter and on the end is the pressure regulator. In a nut she'll once operating pressure is reached then fuel is spat out the end into the tank. The regulator is bolted on and has said O ring inside the joint.
Easy check to see if this could be your issue. Certainly messed with my brain for a time....

 

[tdragger]

Thanks for all the tips guys. Off to the dealer tomorrow with her. She's a little beyond my wrenching skills at this point. I'll pass along the tips to the mechs.

Maybe something else will follow me home...

 

[Neville Lush]

If you have no engine light, there should be no sensors bad. If you have no spark, then the issue must be one effecting all coils, power supply is the most obvious. I have had these bikes "turn over like mad" and still not go, check battery /coil primary voltage when cranking. Does it go with a jump start? Good luck.