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The power loss from clutch to rear wheel is 11-12hp. If you want to know crankshaft-hp you have to add another 2%.
So a 170 rwhp Rocket 2.5 has about 185 hp at the crank.
Are you sure about that? The old model was advertised as 148 and made around 127 at the wheel (Triumph Rocket III - Wikipedia). That's 21 hp difference. It was also a shaft drive. I guess there's no way to really know as I've never seen anyone post a crankshaft dyno. But 12hp loss seems low, given what they quoted and what was observed with the old bike (21hp difference). Would like to hear other thoughts and greatly respect and appreciate your work Penner!!!
 
Are you sure about that? The old model was advertised as 148 and made around 127 at the wheel (Triumph Rocket III - Wikipedia). That's 21 hp difference. It was also a shaft drive. I guess there's no way to really know as I've never seen anyone post a crankshaft dyno. But 12hp loss seems low, given what they quoted and what was observed with the old bike (21hp difference). Would like to hear other thoughts and greatly respect and appreciate your work Penner!!!
I’ve always been told that its between 10- 12%
 
I’ve always been told that its between 10- 12%
I talked to my tech and he said 15% for drivetrain and for apples to apples dyno numbers. The low-inertia dyno (brake dyno) is different than dynojet and consistently gives lower (more accurate) numbers at all throttle positions.

Here is some more info on this topic that I found helpful:

I get that question all the time and this is the best explanation I have for it:


Eddy-Current Chassis Dynamometer Information
To get the most horsepower and performance out of your engine, AF1 Racing utilizes the latest in dynamometer technology. We exclusively use the Factory Pro EC997a eddy-current low-inertia dynamometer. An eddy-current style of dynamometer is far superior to an inertia-style dynamometer (most DynoJet dynes) in terms of its accuracy and capabilities. An inertia-style dyno is a glorified accelerometer, while an eddy-current dynamometer provides real-world loading of the engine. Only a true eddy-current style of dynamometer is capable of step-tests, where the eddy-current brake holds the engine at specific RPM data points and measures HP and torque in real-time steady-state. Testing steady-state, where drum acceleration equals zero, is the only way to get accurate EGA data, True horsepower readings, and real-world loading. Having the capability to tune steady-state is the only way to accurately tune EFI-equipped motorcycles and flatslide carburetors.
HP = (Torque x RPM) / 5252 and Torque = (HP x 5252) / RPM
An inertia style dynamometer measures HP and torque by calculating the acceleration of a heavy drum during a rapid sweep test. You cannot hold steady-state on an inertia dynamometer (accelerometer) making EFI and flatslide tuning impossible at best. How does one test highway cruise and part throttle when you have to accelerate the drum just to get a reading? An eddy-current dynamometer measures rear wheel torque with a load cell while the engine is loaded steady-state at any specific RPM we choose. Think of it like a giant torque wrench where the brake provides resistance against the force of the tire. After measuring torque with the load cell on an eddy-current dynamometer, calculating HP is easy. Horsepower is a simple function of torque and RPM.
Our dynamometer also features a super light roller that is quick to react to load changes and power outputs, which enables us to very precisely tune EFI-equipped bikes, and flatslide carburetors. Our Factory Pro eddy-current dynamometer is not affected by gearing changes, wheel inertia changes, tires sizes, or tire pressures. It reads True HP corrected to SAE atmospheric conditions. It is 0.2 HP accurate every single day, every single run ever done at any Factory Pro tuning center. We can accurately compare any two sessions any Factory Pro dynamometer has ever done. No other machine comes close to its repeatability and accuracy. Expect your HP numbers to be around 12-17% lower with our dynamometer when compared to inertia-type dynes commonly used in magazines and at other shops. Our machine can run anything from scooters, cruisers, HDs, dirtbikes with knobbies, two strokes, and AMA Superbikes.

I have an eddy-current style dyno with extremely accurate load sensors and climate sensors that calculate everything automatically so there isn't a chance for "human error" corrections that would show an inaccurate/higher output reading.
 
At the end of the run you pull the clutch. Now the dyno is slowed down by friction from the rear wheel, the shaft drive, the gearbox and the clutch. From that deceleration the dyno software can calculate the hp-loss from friction in the drive train. That is how you it is done by official dynos. Plus they add another general 2% of friction from crank to clutch.
This is what you see in your documents.

I got a licensed dyno and it said the loss is 11-12 hp.
A modern shaft drive has lower losses than many bikes that have chain drives.
 
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At the end of the run you pull the clutch. Now the dyno is slowed down by friction from the rear wheel, the shaft drive, the gearbox and the clutch. From that deceleration the dyno software can calculate the hp-loss from friction in the drive train. That is how you it is done by official dynos. Plus they add another general 2% of friction from crank to clutch.
This is what you see in your documents.

I got a licensed dyno and it said the loss is 11-12 hp.
A modern shaft drive has lower losses than many bikes that have chain drives.
Interesting. Ok. Thank you for your response!
 
At the end of the run you pull the clutch. Now the dyno is slowed down by friction from the rear wheel, the shaft drive, the gearbox and the clutch. From that deceleration the dyno software can calculate the hp-loss from friction in the drive train. That is how you it is done by official dynos. Plus they add another general 2% of friction from crank to clutch.
This is what you see in your documents.

I got a licensed dyno and it said the loss is 11-12 hp.
A modern shaft drive has lower losses than many bikes that have chain drives.
I assume your loss was reported as a HP number and not a percentage? Just to be sure….
 
OK, just got back after loading the DNK map to my bike. All I can say is holy smokes. This is an entirely different motorcycle with this tune. I have to think it has another 20 hp and 20 pound feet of torque I am unbelievably impressed with the tune of this bike the DNK tune gets my highest recommendation
Sorry but I'll probably have some dumb questions myself, where do we find these maps, in particular the unrestricted map for a '20 rocket 3 R? I've never used tune ecu before and I've got to admit I'm more than a bit excited from what I'm hearing. Side note I'm from down under if that has any bearing on things. Cheers guys
 
Correct. It was the first time I encountered a tuner or fueller who struggles with technical queries in their supposed comfort sphere. She also advised me that they use the same tunes for stock air cleaners (plenums) and open ones (pods), which triggered wailing sirens and flashing lights. And I pretty much suspect the dyno charts are lifted off customer posts on Facebook. DougL and I theorized why DNK advances timing at higher revs in all gears while Penner only does that in 3-6 at lower revs. The extra grunt mine sports down low now explains that.

I have put DNK behind me now. Penner's map ticks all the boxes, including cost. I am even contemplating erecting a Penner shrine in the backyard (-; No more popping, just a pleasant prolonged gargle now and then, perfectly befitting the Beast.
Sorry guys, im completely new to tune ecu, how ďo I go about accessing this Penners map?
 
Sorry guys, im completely new to tune ecu, how ďo I go about accessing this Penners map?
You'll first need one of these.

You'll also need the Tune ECU app for it. The maps can be found here.
Be really careful to select the one that matches your motorcycle/vin. There are differences for years and region.
 
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