Downshifting before cornering

[1olbull]

Hmm, it always seemed to me that a touch of trail braking decreased the radius?

Amigo,
Next time you are cruising through an easy corner, move to the inside line and then gradually apply your front brake.
Your motor will stand up (decreasing lean angle) and INCREASE the radius of your turn.
I say use the front brake because its affects are more pronounced than the rear and easier to do at slower speed for safety purposes.

 

[Tripps]

I agree on the front, but if I'm a little hot, a bit of rear seems to bring me in. I'm not arguing, you may be right, that is just how it feels to me. I haven't ridden in so long I can't remember what it feels like, LOL. The drag at the rear wants to pull the front end in line with the rear.

 

[cardinal93]

Exactly what @1olbull said. Put in Layman's terms, the rear brake lifts the bike, shifting the weight forward, the throttle pushes the weight back onto the rear, the result is increased lean angle ability, alignment and torque for a push. But remember it's a delicate balance before there's no grip left to be had. It's certainly a practiced experience, as is the slight counter steering needed to do it correctly.

 

[albertaduke]

Understand that using either brake while cornering will only modify your trajectory by increasing your radius (standing the motor up) and generally will NOT allow you to tighten the radius.
Don't EVER forget the friction circle. The more you lean the more cornering force that is produced. This combines with whatever braking force that is applied (Pythagorean Theorem) and both use up whatever braking force that is available. So let's say on a given level surface you can produce 1.0g braking force. In the next corner you lean 20°. You are now utilizing .364g of your available friction (tan 20°=.364). Now you have only .636g of braking force left (1.0g-.636g) before you exceed the maximum friction available and complete the corner on your ass!

The graphic is actually shown upside down, as deceleration is negative and should technically point down.
You are progressing up and lean 20° into a right hander. If you brake you have ONLY .64g left for use.
Hope this makes sense?

 

[albertaduke]

Hmm, it always seemed to me that a touch of trail braking decreased the radius?

ME TOO.. particularly if leaned over a touch of rear brake reduce the radius WITHOUT forcing the bike to stand up and opening the radius at least that was how I learned while in the army ,
using the front brake while leaned over is a sure way to cross over the median line as the bike will want to stand straight up
there is a video, on youtube I saw a while back showing a rider doing exactly that opening the radius and plowing in the side of a corvette

 

[Jag]

Counter steer and push down on the handle bar and stomp on you peg or floor board ( on the side ur turning) works like a charm, esp if you come in too hot. Work like a charm!!
Also look thru the turn, bike will follow your head.

 

[1olbull]

ME TOO.. particularly if leaned over a touch of rear brake reduce the radius WITHOUT forcing the bike to stand up and opening the radius at least that was how I learned while in the army ,
using the front brake while leaned over is a sure way to cross over the median line as the bike will want to stand straight up
there is a video, on youtube I saw a while back showing a rider doing exactly that opening the radius and plowing in the side of a corvette

Both wheels are on axles and act like gyroscopes. While leaned over, braking will reduce the cornering forces and the wheels will stand up, increasing your turn radius.
The front wheel effect is felt more so because it is articulated and more sensitive (aka counter steer).

 

[Tripps]

There's more going on than just a single force. I understand what you are saying, and you are correct, but I did some research, light rear brake induces drag on the bike, which pulls the bike into it's trajectory. Works for me anyway, your results may vary.

https://books.google.com/books?id=r...ge&q=rear brake into curve motorcycle&f=false

 

[1olbull]

There's more going on than just a single force. I understand what you are saying, and you are correct, but I did some research, light rear brake induces drag on the bike, which pulls the bike into it's trajectory. Works for me anyway, your results may vary.

https://books.google.com/books?id=rJTQxITnkbgC&pg=PA96&lpg=PA96&dq=rear+brake+into+curve+motorcycle&source=bl&ots=DZcRAcfMqE&sig=vPG58KQ6vGNm2Ni_AXIF2ZmygyA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=BnXiVJJsjuWwBNXvgagI&ved=0CEwQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=rear brake into curve motorcycle&f=false

As I stated before, using rear brake does transfer weight rearward, lifting the front and counteracting nose dive.
We are likely are saying similar things from different perspectives, Amigo.

 

[Jag]

Their is another theory that says lightly apply front brake just before entering the turn and keep it on till the apex of the turn then power out the rest of the turn. The theory is lightly applied will shift the weight foward and increase the size of your contact patch and in turn more weight and control of the front tire, similar to what 1olbull is saying with the rear brake applied. I have not tried this method but I will when spring gets here.
http://rideapart.com/articles/how-to-trail-braking
Here's the article.