Clicking Noise in the Rear Wheel

[Gregger]

Well guys, I felt I should continue the saga with an update on the dreaded 'clicking' sound from the rear wheel.

This July, I replaced the rear wheel bearings after hearing a clicking sound in the rear end. (The previous summer I replaced the rim when it split in the wheel bearing bore on the brake side). The best way to describe the sound..... what it was like when you placed a playing card in the spokes of your bike as a kid and rode. Wasn't quite as staccato but you get the idea. Well 3 days ago I could hear the dreaded noise again, faint but clear, the same as my return trip from across Canada. Well I pulled the wheel off to check everything I couldn't find a problem other than the 2 brgs on the rim being hard to turn (again) with a finger. They rolled smoothly though with no flat spots. I pulled the cush drive rubber out wondering if the noise was coming from the rubber flexing in the aluminum housing. I applied a very thin smear of silicone grease to the surface to test and after verifying that all the spacers were in place, reassembled the wheel, torqued to 81 ft/lbs and the clicking noise was worse. I hadn't changed the brgs this time though. Now in trying to troubleshoot a problem, you should only make 1 change at a time but I had made 2. I greased the cush drive and I applied more torque to the axle nut. Which of these 2 was causing an increase in the clicking noise? I loosened off the wheel and I heard a slight snapping sound from the axle as if things were shifting a bit. I then did what Rocket Scientist suggested and only snugged up the axle nut, then applied about 25 ft/lbs or approximately 1/4 turn torque. Well the noise went away. I really think that there is a spacer issue with some of these bikes that can cause premature brgs failures and noises when torqued to spec.

Going forward, I don't think that the cush drive needs to be lubed but the 81 ft/lbs of torque Triumph recommends for the axle nut needs to be verified and possibly questioned. If you are having problems with wheel brgs at that torque, reduce it and test again. By trial and error I have been able to ascertain that it is too much, at least for my bike.

I may double nut the axle to keep things from coming loose (there's enough thread on the axle to do this). Anybody know what the axle nut size and thread is?

 

[Gregger]

Well guys, I have put around 600 kms on the bike since I loosened off the rear wheel axle nut and still no noise or any adverse handling issues. The rear axle nut has not loosened either. I've got to pick up a M18 x 1.5 nut eventually to double nut the axle.

Next spring, I intend on looking closely at the cush drive and the 4 spacers in the rear wheel (one in the final drive, a sliding one in the cush drive hub bearing, one in the rear wheel and one between wheel and swingarm) because there appears to be a fair amount of compression that has to take place on the cush rubber in order to fully seat the several bearing spacers (one of the spacers is a slip fit in the hub bearing between the final drive and wheel rim). I'm speculating that too much torque is needed to compress the cush drive before all the brg spacers seat, putting excessive side load on the outer brake side wheel brg eventually giving you a noise. Some of you more mechanically inclined should look closely at the design. What do you think??

 

[Rocket3Pilot]

Thanks for the write up. I'll be interested to hear some more theories which I'm sure will be forthcoming.

 

[TURBO200R4]

jmo
once u have had the jolly green giant or the mechanic with the 250 pound torque impac tighten it it collapses the inner spacer and then u have the problem until u replace the spacer.
on the other hand the spacers might be a little short.
it is possible to calculate how much longer the spacer needs to be by the amount of a turn it takes to get to the 81 pounds of torque and then take (for example 3/4 of a turn and the turns per inch on the thread and u get the amount in thousands of an inch to be added to your spacer.
my guess would be if u think u have the clicking problem would be to buy a new spacer to see if that corrected the problem.

 

[Gregger]

What I'm saying is that before you can place any force on both inner bearing races of the rear wheel, thereby loading up that one spacer between them, you need to compress the cush drive rubber which allows the spacer from the final drive to compress the spacer in the cush drive hub bearing (which is a sliding type), which then puts a load on the inner inner wheel brg race loading up the suspect aluminium spacer. This offsets the load already on the outer bearing from the axle nut coming through the spacer to swingarm. Until that happens, you are placing a load on the outer brake side wheel brg only. What I'm tempted to do is trim the cush drive rubber high spots to reduce the amount of torque needed to seat everything.

I am also tempted to increase the spacer size between the wheel bearings and Turbo's comments above warrant consideration. There appears to be only one length to the spacer between these two bearings though. I have a spare spacer in my old rim that I will eventually pull and compare to the one currently in my bike. I'll probably do this next year when I replace the tire and possibly the bearings.

 

[1K9]

Just developed the rear ticking thing. Ordered the bearings. How easy is it to remove and replace them from the rim. Is this something I can do or should I let Rick at the shop do it?

 

[sonny]

You might consider this Easy and a good job with the right tools. Replacing the front bearings this maintenance round due to not knowing what was installed in Texas by the Harley nerds.

 

[Gregger]

Just developed the rear ticking thing. Ordered the bearings. How easy is it to remove and replace them from the rim. Is this something I can do or should I let Rick at the shop do it?

Before you replace the bearings, try loosening your axle nut then go for a ride. I bet you the noise disappears like mine did. That doesn't mean you shouldn't replace the bearings though. I have a new set of bearings to install on my real wheel again as soon as the snow disappears but I still can't figure whats causing that ticking noise. Once I pulled the old bearings from the rim and inspected them, I couldn't feel or see anything wrong with them.

I purchased that same bearing puller arrangement Sonny posted. You will still need to heat the rim to free up the bearings. Works slick though once you heat the rim up.

 

[Journeyman]

Just some food for thought . . .
Project Silvia - The Official Guide to Not Screwing Up Your Wheel Bearings Like I Did > MotoIQ - Automotive Tech, Project Cars, Performance & Motorsports

Interesting, as I was going to under torque, slightly, this time, thinking it would save the bearings. The gist of that article is NOT to under torque the axle, as that too will cause failure.

Gregger - what you're saying makes sense though, as my bearings on the brake side are frozen and the spacer is tight (crushed?) between the two. What torque setting did you finally settle on?

I just removed my rear tire using motion pro tools so I could get the rim powder coated- I'll never do that again with the rear tire, f*&K me! Now fighting to get the bearings out. They are jammed tight against the spacer, so much that I wonder if the spacer is tapered to rest inside the bearings like some Ducatis I've read about. Can anyone chime in on this, please? Maybe I need to lever harder on the spacer to move it aside, but if it's tapered....

Sonny- I was going to order the red kit (blind bearing puller), but videos (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...=27YCUMzKcfE&usg=AOvVaw0vEorMnNYh2jOfTbdDtkQ8) make it look like it has to grab behind the bearings and I have no space there. Will the contraption grab onto the slick inner ring of the bearing, or does it need a little space to grab behind as it appears in the video?

Thanks for any and all advice in advance.

 

[Gregger]

Gregger - what you're saying makes sense though, as my bearings on the brake side are frozen and the spacer is tight (crushed?) between the two. What torque setting did you finally settle on?

Last fall when I noticed the clicking sound I reduced the torque on the rear axle to 25 ft/lbs. The noise disappeared. I then went on a 600 kilometer day trip with no issues. I will replace the bearings this spring though anyway but I don't think the bearings are the issue.

Now fighting to get the bearings out. They are jammed tight against the spacer, so much that I wonder if the spacer is tapered to rest inside the bearings like some Ducatis I've read about. Can anyone chime in on this, please? Maybe I need to lever harder on the spacer to move it aside, but if it's tapered....

The spacer is not tapered. I could not move mine sideways also in order to fit a drift punch. I didn't have the specialty removal tools so I made a home made one. It just fits between the spacer and the bearing inner race. It did distort the spacer a bit. Posted last July Home Made Rear Bearing Puller

Sonny- I was going to order the red kit (blind bearing puller), but videos (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=video&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwigrIiCja3aAhVJ6IMKHXprA3MQtwIIKTAA&url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27YCUMzKcfE&usg=AOvVaw0vEorMnNYh2jOfTbdDtkQ8) make it look like it has to grab behind the bearings and I have no space there. Will the contraption grab onto the slick inner ring of the bearing, or does it need a little space to grab behind as it appears in the video?

Thanks for any and all advice in advance.

You are right about the tool fitting between the inner race and the spacer. There is just enough room to grab the bearing race but the tool doesn't have the gripping power to overcome the press fit unless you also heat the rim. That's what I did when I got my tool and removed the bearings from my spare rim.