Autotune Unresolved Issue

[Georgia Boy]

Fellow Captains.....I am at my whits end with this problem and don't know where to go from here.

I apologize for the lengthy post, but want to give some background of the problem and what I have done to this point.

Firstly, I have a 2010 Roadster with Triple KNs, Jardines, and PCV. I did the Triple upgrade during Christmas and added the AT to avoid another custom tune charge for the upgrade. I loaded a custom AFR table from Hans (which is awesome), which many are running on this site w/out issue, and with outstanding results.

As for me, she runs like a bat from hell until I go and accept the Trims (after at least 100 miles of riding) and see the Low Throttle and RPM ranges full of -20s; particularly 2-10 % throttle. (I tried to do an attachment of the map but failed). Now after reading a bunch about AT from this forum and others, I realize that -20s initially are to be expected (AT is just doing its job), so I accept the trims to my base Fuel Map and then......this is where the problem starts. I start losing power under 3000 RPM range and she feels like she is starving for fuel. When I go check the Trims, I see -20s in the same cells as before. This obviously means that AT is trying to take away -40 from fuel at the RPM/Throttle position.

I have tried reloading the map multiple times, checking the exhaust for leaks, as well as calling Dyno Jet today. The techy told me that he has heard my issue from a few Rocket owners, and he believes that gases are not flowing past the Wide-band sensor as they should at lower RPMs, and are "pooling" up in that area like a "stream" (his words not mine). He told me my only choices are to relocate Sensor (which I do not see a better location on my Jardines), OR Zero those trouble ranges out on my AFR Table in order to get Autotune to ignore those areas.

Why would I have it if I have to zero it out on so many trouble ranges in order for it to work?

I dont know what to do besides drive her without accepting the trims, or disconnect and sell it, and seek out a custom tune.

Does anyone know of a fix? Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.
V/R
Bobby

 

[muleskinner]

Hanso can most likely come up with something here. Nothing against Hanso's MAP, but when I first installed my PCV with the A/T Hanso sent me his MAP to install. It made my bike have some low end problems. So I went back to the base Dynojet MAP.

Later on I fooled around with the MAP cruise settings trying to get better fuel mileage, but it caused low end problems. So I went back to the base Dynojet MAP. My bike runs perfect with that MAP. I guess if I wanted to spend the money I could have a custom MAP made on the dyno, but for me why? My bike runs fine with the stock Dynojet MAP.

As for what the Tech at Dynojet said, in theory he could be correct. But if he was, I would think others here who run Jardines with the PCV and the A/T would have the same problem. The PCV and the A/T are great. Don't give up on them yet. What does the bike do with the stock Dynojet MAP without any other MAPS or downloads? Is the ECU program stock, or do you have Tuneboy or a similar download also?

 

[Georgia Boy]

muleskinner,

Thanks for the reply. I thought the same thing with regards to problems with "pooling" with the Jardines.

I do not have the PCV map for my setup with the DJ AFR tables. The PCV map for my setup (Jardines, Triples) on the DJ website has fuel maps for each gear, but does not have the AFR table. I asked the tech about it yesterday, and he said not all of them have it. The maps which do have an AFR table are for a different configurations. If you have the DJ AFR table for my setup, I would love to try it.

With regards to ECU, I am running a Tuneecu map which I downloaded from the Tuneecu site (opened secondaries, speed limiter raised).

Hans has been very patient with me. We have exchanged numerous emails about the problem, but we have not come up with a solution for my bike yet.

Thanks for your input, and if you have, or know where I can get another AFR table to try, I would appreciate it greatly.

Bobby

 

[muleskinner]

I wish I had, but I don't. Mickey Cohen in Orange County is supposed to be the "Dyno guru" in California. I know you live a long way from him, but why don't you give him a call. His ad is on this site somewhere.

 

[dwracer15]

Trims

I have the same problem. If I accept the trims it runs great for 25-30 miles. Then it stars surging or starving for fuel. I run Hans tables with no problems. The only way I run with out a problem is not accept the trims. I have done everything that has been suggested here on the site.

 

[Georgia Boy]

muleskinner,

I might try and look him up. I have a guy here in monterey who did my custom map prior to me installing more upgrades, including the AT. He seems pretty knowledgeable, so I might run this by him too.

racer,
I was thinking of just not accepting the trims as well, but I can't find any information on what this would do long term. Does this mean the AT is just always trimming w/out creating a base map? Dunno

 

[warp9.9]

I was wondering if it could be because the roadster and touring maps are different from the Standard Rockets. Meaning they have timing and triom table for both the F & L Tables and do not have as many. If memory serves me right they have like a F1 & 2 and L 1&2 where the standard and classics Have F1,2,3, and Timing maps for everthing across the board. Not sure if this would affect anything but I am not a expert on this subject.
So consider this brain storming.

 

[Georgia Boy]

Warp,

You know WAY more than I do about tuning brother....you lost me at the trim tables you were referring to....you may be onto something about there being a difference between the Classic and Roadster with regards to tuning. This would maybe help explain why Hans' AFR table is running fine with AT on many other captains' bikes, but my Roadster is having issue with it. I just hope that someone can shed some light on what I can do to mate up an AFR table with my AT that she likes better, so I can actually create a base map with it as advertised.

I appreciate all the feedback......bring on the brainstorming!

 

[muleskinner]

I was wondering if it could be because the roadster and touring maps are different from the Standard Rockets. Meaning they have timing and triom table for both the F & L Tables and do not have as many. If memory serves me right they have like a F1 & 2 and L 1&2 where the standard and classics Have F1,2,3, and Timing maps for everthing across the board. Not sure if this would affect anything but I am not a expert on this subject.
So consider this brain storming.

Bingo! You are right. My dealer told me one time the ECU from a Roadster would not work on a Touring. Why don't you unload the Tuneboy tune and Hanso' tune and then try it with the Dynojet MAP and the stock ECU settings. You can always reload the Tuneboy tune and Hanso' tune. The A/T only tunes to the set MAP loaded into the PCV. The A/T just looks at your bike and trys to make your bike run to the specs of the loaded MAP if that makes any sense.

 

[Georgia Boy]

Muleskinner,
Correct me if I am wrong (I know only the basics of tuning) but I was under the assumption that my Tuneecu tune just opened the secondaries, raised the rev and speed limiters and corrected the retarded timing. It has no bearing on the PCV tuning (?).

With regards to the PCV AFR table, as stated before I only have the one from Hans. I have been unable to find an AFR table on this Forum or the dyno jet website. The maps that are there are straight fuel maps and do not have the AFR tables, and besides putting all the same AFRs in each column, I have no idea how to make one

Hans' table works fine until I accept the trims, and then I start running lean in the low range.