A Labor of Love; aka building a Rocket III Speedster

[Claviger]

Corvette LS7 eThrottle ordered, $100.17. So, 9% of the cost of the aftermarket solutions and likely more reliable. Part # 19420707.


I've been thinking intake, I'm wholly unsatisfied with past results.The #3 intake is just placed in a bad spot to for long runner setups and knee clearancea, then the frame rail fouls mounting plates set too low so makes fitting the px600 setup a PITA when trying to keep it clear of the knee.

The options are accept less power or make space. Option two is my choice.

Since I'm not using the secondaries, I can cut the throttlebodies (red line) shorter and attach a 45 degree bend to shift the air filter forward towards the front tire and create knee space. I just need to retain the fuel rail mounting points.


Still gets me about 35mm more space, which should be enough paired with the 45.

Will be trying my hand at aluminum brazing, and building a smooth intake tract that nets about 6" length over the stock TB entry length to 3x2 bolt flanges that allow me to fit various things for testing. .

First attempt will be a PX-600 backplate with brazed in place bellmouths. Overall this will be equivalent to a 5.5" bellmouth attached to stock throttlebodies. The 4" design gave me 7lbft everywhere below 4500 RPM tapering off to even power with stock rubber radiuses from 7000 and up, hopefully this does at least that.

 

[Gerald]

Corvette LS7 eThrottle ordered, $100.17. So, 9% of the cost of the aftermarket solutions and likely more reliable. Part # 19420707.


I've been thinking intake, I'm wholly unsatisfied with past results.The #3 intake is just placed in a bad spot to for long runner setups and knee clearancea, then the frame rail fouls mounting plates set too low so makes fitting the px600 setup a PITA when trying to keep it clear of the knee.

The options are accept less power or make space. Option two is my choice.

Since I'm not using the secondaries, I can cut the throttlebodies (red line) shorter and attach a 45 degree bend to shift the air filter forward towards the front tire and create knee space. I just need to retain the fuel rail mounting points.


Still gets me about 35mm more space, which should be enough paired with the 45.

Will be trying my hand at aluminum brazing, and building a smooth intake tract that nets about 6" length over the stock TB entry length to 3x2 bolt flanges that allow me to fit various things for testing. .

First attempt will be a PX-600 backplate with brazed in place bellmouths. Overall this will be equivalent to a 5.5" bellmouth attached to stock throttlebodies. The 4" design gave me 7lbft everywhere below 4500 RPM tapering off to even power with stock rubber radiuses from 7000 and up, hopefully this does at least that.

Not familiar with alum. brazing, tig makes smaller weld seam, but alum. casting usually full of trash and more difficult to weld. I'm sure you have done your homework, just strange to me. Amazed with all your work arounds and solutions.

 

[Claviger]

Front fender arrived today, will be an interesting job fitting it when it's time. It's very much race bodywork, thin and light so will need proper tensioning during installation to get strength from it. It's fiberglass, but it looks like E-Glass twill material, nearly as strong as CF and lighter.

Certainly more streamlined than the Carbon Dry one. I expect it's polarizing visually as to what people like or not.

Personally I love it.

 

[Claviger]

Not familiar with alum. brazing, tig makes smaller weld seam, but alum. casting usually full of trash and more difficult to weld. I'm sure you have done your homework, just strange to me. Amazed with all your work arounds and solutions.

It's shockingly strong for a system of connection that doesn't melt the base metal. Since the base metal isn't a contributor, I don't think (hope really) there will be an issues connecting the cast pieces.

12 minutes in will amaze you, but the whole video is pretty **** informative. For my application, it's absolutely adequate strength.

Really going to invest some time in getting this down as skill I excel at. I have...a number of things I want to do with aluminum and I don't have the space or want for a full tig setup (plus it's $$$$ for a good TIG setup).

 

[Gerald]

It's shockingly strong for a system of connection that doesn't melt the base metal. Since the base metal isn't a contributor, I don't think (hope really) there will be an issues connecting the cast pieces.

12 minutes in will amaze you, but the whole video is pretty **** informative. For my application, it's absolutely adequate strength.

Really going to invest some time in getting this down as skill I excel at. I have...a number of things I want to do with aluminum and I don't have the space or want for a full tig setup (plus it's $$$$ for a good TIG setup).

Enjoyed the video, might buy a packet of Hobart's, just for simple, quick fixes.

 

[Claviger]

@Gerald can be used to bond stainless to Aluminum too, a neat trick that is otherwise very hard to pull off.

For those wondering how much I chopped the frame....


The plan is to use packing tape, foam, and more packing tape to build a plug for the rear fender to be fiberglassed over. It will cover the "stubs" of the rear sub frame that remain, fastening to the remaining bolt hole back there. This will house the lithium battery, ECU, and fuses on an aluminum tray that I'll attach to an aluminum cross member that will span the gap between the same bolt holes (blue line), making it all removable and effectively boxing in the back of the frame behind the shock mounting points.

Yellow will get a custom fiberglass beauty cover.


I didn't cut more because I wanted to leave the cast piece whole for strength, and I wanted to box the rear in to keep max rigidity for the suspension since it's not a "show" bike like so many cafe conversions pictured on the net. I'ts going to get ridden hard, as always, so needs strength.

Had a conversation with the painter. Color scheme has evolved and been finalized. Will keep this for the reveal next year

 

[Gerald]

@Gerald can be used to bond stainless to Aluminum too, a neat trick that is otherwise very hard to pull off.

For those wondering how much I chopped the frame....


The plan is to use packing tape, foam, and more packing tape to build a plug for the rear fender to be fiberglassed over. It will cover the "stubs" of the rear sub frame that remain, fastening to the remaining bolt hole back there. This will house the lithium battery, ECU, and fuses on an aluminum tray that I'll attach to an aluminum cross member that will span the gap between the same bolt holes (blue line), making it all removable and effectively boxing in the back of the frame behind the shock mounting points.

Yellow will get a custom fiberglass beauty cover.


I didn't cut more because I wanted to leave the cast piece whole for strength, and I wanted to box the rear in to keep max rigidity for the suspension since it's not a "show" bike like so many cafe conversions pictured on the net. I'ts going to get ridden hard, as always, so needs strength.

Had a conversation with the painter. Color scheme has evolved and been finalized. Will keep this for the reveal next year

Bonding stainless to aluminum is a plus. If it bonds well, you can dress it out/ blend it in.

 

[Claviger]

I would contest that statement
Even un-loaded you will see a lower voltage on the phase that actually has the short to ground, versus the other two.
It should be discernible
The key is that you measure the voltage on the three phases at the exact same engine rpm (idle is simplest for consistency)


It will ALWAYS be the case that you either measure ALL short to ground, or NONE short to ground.
It is not possible for any of the three to read differently regarding resistance to ground as you simply read the 'good' coils to the bad one and resistance between all three is less than an ohm anyway, even when perfect.

But the fact is, you measured short to ground from your stator, so that says it is toast.

With the cost and horrendous amount of work to replace the stator on a Rocket, I would consider trying a Series R/R:
I have an SH847 model R/R from a VStrom 1000 on my Daytona
These are plug n play with the Same connectors as the OEM Shindengen FH012 - very similar form factor, but slightly taller heatsink.
(or you could try a Compufire, but the Vstrom unit will essentially plug n play*)
* ensure the added height is not an issue.

The SH847 is a Series R/R, whereas the OEM is a MOSFET Shunt R/R.
The difference in short, is:
with a Shunt R/R, your stator is producing maximum current AT ALL TIMES, with the excess being expended in the Shunt.
with a Series R/R, only the current being demanded by the load (i.e. the bike's actual electrical system) is being pulled from the stator.
Therefor the stator runs much cooler and does not try to fry itself.

You can read more on that here - Triumph Forum: Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums - View Single Post - Charging System Diagnostics - Rectifier/Regulator Upgrade

Exactly why I love this place. Go searching for an upgraded RR and....the info is readily available.

About to order one up as I don't want a wonky RR playing hell with the standalone ECU.

Off to visit a local tuner and see if we can work something out regarding dyno time and tuning. I need someone who will basically let me rent it for a whole day and let me do some A/B testing.

I'm not paying the 2WDW rate, they're too busy a shop to cut a deal on a whole day of Dyno, so I don't blame them, it would be ....very costly.

 

[Claviger]

So good news and bad news.

He's open to the idea and gave me his personal number so we can do it when I'm ready

Bad news...he's closing his shop but keeping the dyno, so...that sucks. One less proficient tuner/mechanic with a shop, shame.

 

[FasterDave]

This will be my build thread for the new bike.

Current Plans:
- Unload and teardown Mufasa's engine for viability check
- Check all other possible viable parts

Pending engine viability:
- Buy donor bike from forum member (sourced)
- Finish stripping donor frame
- Powdercoat donor frame/swinger
- Powdercoat Tank w/airbrushing
- Powdercoat Oil Tank
- Custom oil tank embelisher
- Painted front/rear fenders/side covers/Fairing
- Repair rear wheel and powdercoat
- Powdercoat front wheel (whichever it is)
- Source 2nd Gen Hayabusa forks/wheel/brakes/axle
- Have custom lower/upper triples machined (whether stock forks or busa, this is being done to make a 120/70R17 + 200/55R17 + 348mm shocks regain trail, targeting 5" of trail)
- Carbon Dry tail again
- Busa Aero front fender
- Have custom steel ABS rings waterjet cut. The idea is to adjust the ratio to bring 200/55R17 and 120/70R17 ABS registration rate within 4% and keep ABS functionality.
- Rework stock undrseat air box location to act as a high flow plenum with a long runner, will assist sub 3000 RPM reversion.
- Chop off rear subframe and weld up a much lighter chromoly substitute to hold the fender.
- TTS center mounted narrow Radiator
- Gauge system will be Motoscope Pro ecosystem with the mo.unit blue to add non wonky keyless ignition via NFC. MPS-B breakout box to add sensor inputs to gauges.
- Build custom wire harness, I'm done with Triumph's insanity of a loom
- Either clipons or Protaper Carbon/Aluminum bar SX Race bend ACF(as on my ZH2, I love it)
- Get Accessory seat recovered and scooped slightly
- Hand controls will be non-standard
- Rearsets, not settled on a solution yet
- Fairing, also not settled, I want a fully faired Rocket 3, this will likely be the hardest and final part
- Hydraulic clutch conversion, I'm over the ridiculous lever weight and Janky adjustment

More as I decide on what I want. I'm building my ideal 2.3liter, long wheelbase, steel frame sportbike this time. It will take longer, but it will be "just right".

You are mad like a box of frogs. And I love it.

When I built my Norton Commando racebike from scratch I found that powder coating the frame means a few nights sanding it off on axle & suspension mounts to fit.

Good luck on this project. It sounds super cool.