Valve clearance check

[1olbull]

OMG Kevin he set them upside down!
Seriously though, that illustrates part of my question how far out of spec’s is an immediate problem and what are the consequences. Here is what Triumph says-

If Rob set you up like that it wasn’t an accident, and I think less clearance is more dangerous than too much, I have read that as parts wear the clearance becomes less. I suspect less clearance translates to an earlier valve opening, and better performance, right up to the point where the valves don’t close all the way. What I don’t know is what happens with excess clearance besides the obvious later opening.
As a side note I have also been told the cam cover bolts should be re torqued after an interval, I didn’t catch that, when I tore mine down yesterday they were literally finger tight. Might be worth a check before long on your bike.

John,
No need to remove cams.
I have the tool that Rob made for mine.
If ya wish, I can mail it to you?

 

[Mike Rocket]

Just my thoughts on this Valve clearance thread.
If the valve clearances are really as wide as indicated there would be excessive valve noise especially on start up when the engine is cold. As others have said, the clearances close up with wear not get bigger. If they are not excessively loud I would leave them alone. Valves too tight will cause more damage than valve a little too loose.

 

[oteczdmitriy]

I developed a cam cover gasket leak and decided yesterday was the day to take it apart. Figured I would check valve clearances while I was in there. I spent a couple of hours fiddling with it checking and rechecking until I duplicated previous results. I was careful to align each cam lobe directly over center of the bucket and made the feeler gauge as snug as I judged was possible without compressing the spring. Here is what I got:

I’m not a mechanic or a machinist, I don’t use a feeler gauge frequently, and know enough to know it’s a skill I don’t have, so like I said I went slow and repeated the process until I got consistent results. Unless I misjudged and did compress the springs trying to get a snug fit, I’ve got around 50% more clearance than Triumph specs.
I really am not wanting to pull the cams. I’ve read about @Rocket Scientist & @Bedifferent making tools to compress the springs and change shims, haven’t spotted anything on the tools recently, what’s the latest, are they still considered a viable alternative?
I also found this video of a guy working on a Yamaha who stuck a zip tie in the spark plug hole and worked it in an open valve to hold the bucket down while he rotated the cam into the closed position, skip to 12:20 for the pertinent part Zip tie method
@Speedy @warp9.9 @R-III-R Turbo @Claviger @Idaho Red Rocket 3 anybody else have some input?
I’ve got a 4 day run coming up in 2 weeks and RAA west in September, I’m inclined to not put it back together until it’s corrected, but don’t have the time tools or parts to get it done in 2 weeks, how far can I push this (if any) and exactly what damage am I risking?

The clearance on the intake valves becomes smaller, on the exhaust valves become larger. If there is a clearance of 0.33 on the exhaust valves, then there will be no gap at all on the intake valves, or 0.02. We need to check again ...

 

[oteczdmitriy]

after 30,000 kilometers

 

[Mad Dog]

John,
No need to remove cams.
I have the tool that Rob made for mine.
If ya wish, I can mail it to you?

Thank you Steve. Will PM you.

 

[martym52]

Conversion: .004" to .006" Intake- .006" to .008" Exhaust. Use the thumb forefinger grip method on the feeler gauge. Unless you're a bodybuilder or arm wrestler the drag method holds true.

 

[R-III-R Turbo]

Hmmm seems like something not right, funny that they're all so far out and none of them are tight.
Either the readings are correct or they are not.

Assuming they are not correct - maybe try a different feeler gauge set (or confirm the current ones'thicknesses are accurate with a good calipers or even better a micrometer)?
Assume you have watched videos on feeler gauge technique. With valve clearances like this you can quite easily cram in a gauge that is way too thick (and give yourself fits of panic that the clearances are too big) because the valves are on springs and are somewhat easily pushed away from the heel of the cam lobe to accommodate a misleadingly large feeler gauge.
If you skip to 22:00 in this video you can watch someone doing it on a Rocket engine

Assuming the clearance readings are actually accurate - was it running ok before?
One possibility if the clearances are all large, is that the valves aren't closing right. A compression test might confirm or deny.
Another possibility is perhaps a previous owner or questionable mechanic fitted incorrect shims. Hell maybe they also fitted the cam cover &/or gasket incorrectly too, hence the leak.

If you were to put it back together as is, well you've been riding it as is for a while with no apparent problems.
On the other hand, I'd like to know why the readings are way out before going any further. Lot of possibilities, all we can do is start ruling things out. It's not that much work to remove the cams, change shims and set cam timing. You'll feel much better having got to the bottom of it AND fixed it while learning useful skills.

 

[Idaho Red Rocket 3]

My shim depressing tools made from @Rocket Scientist drawings. Work great.

 

[Gerald]

My shim depressing tools made from @Rocket Scientist drawings. Work great.

I believe Warp also had a drawing specing out dimensions. Both drawings made a good tool.

 

[Mad Dog]

Hmmm seems like something not right, funny that they're all so far out and none of them are tight.
Either the readings are correct or they are not.

Assuming they are not correct - maybe try a different feeler gauge set (or confirm the current ones'thicknesses are accurate with a good calipers or even better a micrometer)?
Assume you have watched videos on feeler gauge technique. With valve clearances like this you can quite easily cram in a gauge that is way too thick (and give yourself fits of panic that the clearances are too big) because the valves are on springs and are somewhat easily pushed away from the heel of the cam lobe to accommodate a misleadingly large feeler gauge.
If you skip to 22:00 in this video you can watch someone doing it on a Rocket engine

Assuming the clearance readings are actually accurate - was it running ok before?
One possibility if the clearances are all large, is that the valves aren't closing right. A compression test might confirm or deny.
Another possibility is perhaps a previous owner or questionable mechanic fitted incorrect shims. Hell maybe they also fitted the cam cover &/or gasket incorrectly too, hence the leak.

If you were to put it back together as is, well you've been riding it as is for a while with no apparent problems.
On the other hand, I'd like to know why the readings are way out before going any further. Lot of possibilities, all we can do is start ruling things out. It's not that much work to remove the cams, change shims and set cam timing. You'll feel much better having got to the bottom of it AND fixed it while learning useful skills.

You hit the nail on the head with questionable mechanic. I had the guy install Neville’s street cam a year ago and he screwed up everything he touched. He was recommended as the go to guy by my local dealer. His name is Eric Colvin and is in Oklahoma City. It was running ok before I took it apart, maybe some valve train noise but hard to say, my ears are bad with higher frequencies. It dyno’d around 160 hp & torque. I have watched the videos of how to use a feeler gauge and am not quite the amateur I painted myself to be. I believe I got the clearances pretty close. It was tight quarters as you know and I was using a 1/2”x3 1/4” go/no go feeler gauge which was difficult to work with in that space. I did them all 3 times over looking for a consistent number. I’m going for a different feeler gauge and doing it over to see if I get consistent results, any recommendations on a better feeler gauge? It looks like Im going to need an assload of shims, where is the best place to get them?