PSA - TuneECU might have a weakness on 2014+ R3s.

[Wrecka]

You don't need to remove it. Presumably, by unchecking the sensor box, TuneECU is telling the ECU never to use the signal from the O2 sensor and to rely solely on the fuel tables.

Thanks mate

 

[Wrecka]

I would take it out and this is what I used
Oxygen lambda o2 sensor eliminator Complete kit Triumph Rocket III/3

Ahhh cool , already have a similar bung for the headers , ill just wrap and tuck the sensor up out of the way

 

[Wrecka]

This CES tune works great with my setup , non-CES headers and 3 4inch Airfilter , bike is running like clockwork , tank you very much

 

[Claviger]

To finally answer the question.

Disabling the O2 sensor in tune ecu complete disables the circuit. No need to instal a simulator etc, just unplug the sensor from the harness, unscrew from exhaust and put in a plug. That is, if you want to be able to reverse the process and turn o2 back on someday.

On the other hand, you could just turn it off in software and touch nothing and it will run just fine, your o2 sensor will be destroyed over time though.

Glad to hear it wrecka.


This will probably be the last TuneECU tune, getting my tune boy setup installed soon ;p

 

[dougl]

To finally answer the question.

Disabling the O2 sensor in tune ecu complete disables the circuit.

How do we know this? Has anyone looked at the voltages on the sensor with the O2 box unchecked? The ECU uses the signal from the sensor when the stock software tells it to. Otherwise it ignores it. Power to the sensor is always on when the bike is turned on. The TuneECU software should just be telling the ECU not to poll and use the sensor signal. Why would it turn off power to the sensor?

As far as crapping the sensor up goes, I have some experience. I used a custom Tuneboy tune on my first Rocket for years. In the summer when it's commonly above 90F, the bike ran leaner. Closed loop leans it out even more, increasing decel popping. So, I'd uncheck the box in summer to reduce popping. In winter, when it ran fatter, I'd check the box because I felt the bike ran smoother at the low end in closed loop than it did just on the L tables. I did this for years and never had a problem with the sensor.

Just found an interesting discussion about TuneECU:

TuneECU and kit ECU/map [Archive] - Triumph675.Net Forums

 

[Claviger]

Power to the sensor is always on when the bike is turned on. The TuneECU software should just be telling the ECU not to poll and use the sensor signal. Why would it turn off power to the sensor?

As far as crapping the sensor up goes, I have some experience. I used a custom Tuneboy tune on my first Rocket for years. In the summer when it's commonly above 90F, the bike ran leaner. Closed loop leans it out even more, increasing decel popping. So, I'd uncheck the box in summer to reduce popping. In winter, when it ran fatter, I'd check the box because I felt the bike ran smoother at the low end in closed loop than it did just on the L tables. I did this for years and never had a problem with the sensor

I can verify the circuit is dead, you do not need a simulator, it is not a simple "don't monitor this sensor" box it is a "disable o2 sensor function" box. The ECU doesn't ever power on the heater circuit with the o2 disabled. Easy check I did last year, pull the sensor from the exhaust but leave it connected to the harness, turn it off in software and turn the ignition on. Without touching the sensor feel for heat, you won't have any, the circuit is dead no voltage = no heat. The first thing the ECU does with the o2 enabled, is check for continuity of the circuit when it is using the sensor and then attempts to warm the sensor. If it doesn't find continuity it throws the "o2 sensor circuit" code, as far as I know, all OBD2 vehicles do this the same.

The last 13 months on my bike with the OEM O2 sensor socket being empty while I use a wideband into a standalone datalogger, and the o2 disabled in my tunes should be enough to allay any worries of throwing a code long term. It hasn't thrown one when changing batteries after sitting at a measured 4 volts on the battery, where it sat for about a week.
Hasn't thrown one going back to stock tune with o2 circuit disabled while verifying idle timing,sound and feel of the engine on the stock tune at idle.
Hasn't thrown one in torrential downpour.
Hasn't thrown one sitting nearly still idling for over 3 hours in traffic in 90f ambient temps (took me 4 hours to go 3 miles, don't ask).
Hasn't thrown one with the speedo wrapped well past the 140 mph indicated mark.
Hasn't thrown one flogging it nearly a full day riding like an idiot, trying to datalog the difficult points to pick up e.g. high throttle opening low rpm/high rpm with small throttle openings etc.
Hasn't thrown one commuting nearly every single day for 6 of those 12 months.

Leaving a non-powered heated o2 element in an exhaust while running the engine is the best way of killing it aside from running leaded gasoline/petrol. The fact yours didn't die is luck, not a rule, congratulations, glad it worked out for you. Plugs for the hole are under $2.00 US and take less than 5 minutes to put in.

Note: Mixture should be fairly stable regardless of air temp, but you will use less fuel in hot weather, sounds like a good reason to turn it off. The reason I HATE the stock o2 setup is mainly the control over the L tables it has and where the control is enabled. Very low throttle opening/low load portions. Those areas are best tuned by feel, in particular the under 1% TPS section, basically the "just" slightly open position of the throttle. As a result, I found the stock setup with the stock sensor led to a bit of a harsh on/off feeling. It also led to a less than glass smooth ride when under 1% TPS in 2nd gear creeping along, just slightly open on the throttle, the bike would jerk on/off the drive train a bit as it picked up the lash and fell off it, and make super slow speed control wonky, forcing clutch work.

For the same reasons, nearly all ECU tuners I know and all advice/instruction/text books I have read say to tune a performance setup idle to feel/sound not by AFR. It's the proven method, has been for over 100 years. In those areas the engine load is so low, like the situations I mention above, that it's very forgiving of mixture changes but will be happiest in a certain range with the least vibrations. These are the little things a PowerCommander 3 or 5 with canned, computer calculated fuel map or a dobec cannot do without tuner inputs and its part of the thing that sets a tuner apart from a cut/paste monkey using software tuning only.

With O2 turned off, all those issues are gone. I can get away with it year round because hawaii has 1 season, summer, all year. For those with 4 actual seasons, you will need summer/winter tunes to get the best out of your bike if you don't use the O2 sensor. My tunes are verified down to around 65f, which is about the coldest it gets here on a regular basis.

Finally, if you doubt it, run test it, will take less than 10 minutes with a multi-meter. In the end, I feel that my tunes speak for themselves, they perform well, and I feel no need to prove anything to anyone about them, use it if you want to, don't if you don't. There is nothing stopping anyone from DLing my tune and simply flicking O2 sensor settings to ON and using it, at worst it will slowly, over time, work your idle and L table AFRs towards what you set them to in the AFR table. There is a disclaimer on my first post for a reason, I cannot possibly take into account all scenarios since I don't have 4 seasons and max elevation here in Oahu is somewhat limited.

 

[dougl]

I can verify the circuit is dead, you do not need a simulator, it is not a simple "don't monitor this sensor" box it is a "disable o2 sensor function" box. The ECU doesn't ever power on the heater circuit with the o2 disabled. Easy check I did last year, pull the sensor from the exhaust but leave it connected to the harness, turn it off in software and turn the ignition on. Without touching the sensor feel for heat, you won't have any, the circuit is dead no voltage = no heat. The first thing the ECU does with the o2 enabled, is check for continuity of the circuit when it is using the sensor and then attempts to warm the sensor. If it doesn't find continuity it throws the "o2 sensor circuit" code, as far as I know, all OBD2 vehicles do this the same.

The last 13 months on my bike with the OEM O2 sensor socket being empty while I use a wideband into a standalone datalogger, and the o2 disabled in my tunes should be enough to allay any worries of throwing a code long term. It hasn't thrown one when changing batteries after sitting at a measured 4 volts on the battery, where it sat for about a week.
Hasn't thrown one going back to stock tune with o2 circuit disabled while verifying idle timing,sound and feel of the engine on the stock tune at idle.
Hasn't thrown one in torrential downpour.
Hasn't thrown one sitting nearly still idling for over 3 hours in traffic in 90f ambient temps (took me 4 hours to go 3 miles, don't ask).
Hasn't thrown one with the speedo wrapped well past the 140 mph indicated mark.
Hasn't thrown one flogging it nearly a full day riding like an idiot, trying to datalog the difficult points to pick up e.g. high throttle opening low rpm/high rpm with small throttle openings etc.
Hasn't thrown one commuting nearly every single day for 6 of those 12 months.

Leaving a non-powered heated o2 element in an exhaust while running the engine is the best way of killing it aside from running leaded gasoline/petrol. The fact yours didn't die is luck, not a rule, congratulations, glad it worked out for you. Plugs for the hole are under $2.00 US and take less than 5 minutes to put in.

Note: Mixture should be fairly stable regardless of air temp, but you will use less fuel in hot weather, sounds like a good reason to turn it off. The reason I HATE the stock o2 setup is mainly the control over the L tables it has and where the control is enabled. Very low throttle opening/low load portions. Those areas are best tuned by feel, in particular the under 1% TPS section, basically the "just" slightly open position of the throttle. As a result, I found the stock setup with the stock sensor led to a bit of a harsh on/off feeling. It also led to a less than glass smooth ride when under 1% TPS in 2nd gear creeping along, just slightly open on the throttle, the bike would jerk on/off the drive train a bit as it picked up the lash and fell off it, and make super slow speed control wonky, forcing clutch work.

For the same reasons, nearly all ECU tuners I know and all advice/instruction/text books I have read say to tune a performance setup idle to feel/sound not by AFR. It's the proven method, has been for over 100 years. In those areas the engine load is so low, like the situations I mention above, that it's very forgiving of mixture changes but will be happiest in a certain range with the least vibrations. These are the little things a PowerCommander 3 or 5 with canned, computer calculated fuel map or a dobec cannot do without tuner inputs and its part of the thing that sets a tuner apart from a cut/paste monkey using software tuning only.

With O2 turned off, all those issues are gone. I can get away with it year round because hawaii has 1 season, summer, all year. For those with 4 actual seasons, you will need summer/winter tunes to get the best out of your bike if you don't use the O2 sensor. My tunes are verified down to around 65f, which is about the coldest it gets here on a regular basis.

Finally, if you doubt it, run test it, will take less than 10 minutes with a multi-meter. In the end, I feel that my tunes speak for themselves, they perform well, and I feel no need to prove anything to anyone about them, use it if you want to, don't if you don't. There is nothing stopping anyone from DLing my tune and simply flicking O2 sensor settings to ON and using it, at worst it will slowly, over time, work your idle and L table AFRs towards what you set them to in the AFR table. There is a disclaimer on my first post for a reason, I cannot possibly take into account all scenarios since I don't have 4 seasons and max elevation here in Oahu is somewhat limited.

Thanks for the analysis. Sounds reasonable. Since I have a Power Commander, the fate of my O2 sensor is irrelevant.

 

[Claviger]

Obsolete Post.

 

[Claviger]

See 1st post.

 

[WyldCFH]

Is the o2 on map valid for a stock '16?