Propane Conversion

Please I meant no offense, I was teasing about principles:
Based on the principle that you can laugh all the way to your grave, or not at all, same price.
Yes I suffer from over-cartesiana as a very senior principle engineer in industrial mechanical/electrical/automation engineer, i.e. a career multidisciplary project engineer.

Environnement : as I indicated I care about environmental polution, nuclear waste, nuclear weapons arsenals, chemical and biological weapons arsenals that can all wipe all life from planet. Climate change, from what I've read is only 1/3 humans, then recovery.
Between Stokes' law and infinite pollution that may never purge.
Finally, my apparent contradictory idea of a R3R to propane, is my feminine side, laughing at men and myself that don't always understand women or have insufficient emotional intelligence.
If you have engineering and project mgmt in your portfolio you will have noted the choice of words, and, as you correctly said, brain storming, i.e. pre-feasabily study.
Thanks for the continued diaogue Jagster
 
Details, details ... don't be an iconoclast to an ol' fart trying to have fun!
You're ratios are off somewhat, and burn't propane smells better and is cleaner for your lungs. Besides this is a concept project, a stepping stone to a later possibility of burning soup: biofuel c2h6 to c5h12 mix where engine timing adjusts in real time based on fuel density in real time, ratio of fuel mass flow / fuel volumetric flow.

cheers

xian
 
As I think I implied earlier, this particular subject is slightly over my head when it comes down to the technical details, but my design head can't quite drop the subject and shut my mouth and just be an audience member within this thread.
Aside from my concerns about the practical safety aspects for such a 'home-made' product/project using pressurized gas together with gasoline on a single-tracked vehicle along with all the associated vulnerabilities, my next area of questioning (devils advocate questioning) is the packaging implications (i.e. size, shape, volume).

What volume is required to house the amount of propane needed to achieve the range required?
I'm not familiar with the cross sectional profile of the 'older' model Rocket 111, but i've seen a section through the latest model fuel tank and there is far less available volume inside it than is apparent from it's overall appearance when fully fitted on the bike.
I'm guessing that the older model has a similar 'weakness' in this way.....and.....with the tank being even higher than on the latest model, it's going to be one hell of an interesting looking tank if you need a larger vessel volume for propane + gasoline.
 
Well my Deer Jagster
That's the purpose of doing pre-feasability and feasability studies: what can and cannot be done, and at what price.
As a reference there are kevlar fuel tanks built to store 300km (I think) for gaseous hydrogen at 600 or 700 bar for family automobile, and I believe Toyota has a purpose built car for H2. Propane would be only at 7 or 8 bars in a kevlar envelope, shaped by a carbon fiber (?) skeleton. Maybe it'll give less than 300km.
Propane and gascoline at such low pressures and temperatures are likely imiscible, and if ay propane disolves in the bit of gasoline in the bottom of the tank, then it will come out of solution (boil off) as the propane pressure drops near the end. What's interesting about this approach is you can fill the tank full of one, the other or some ratio, very elegant, at least on blog.
Cars converted to propane almost always keep a gasoline tank and you can switch from one fuel to the other on the fly.
So waddaya tink?
Fuel tank would keep same shape but a compete replacement. I simply wonder how the finish will look, and what buget the project would need. But we're early in te prefeasability. I think this project might be eligible for R&D $ support, as other projects I've done.
Please note that I'm a licensed professional engineer in good standing, working with a fast prototyping shop having many mechanical engineers with most recent tools like FEA, some CFD, etc. so this project does not really fall under a "home built" category, but engineered with resources of industrial flavour, not transportation or racing, which might be a better match. As a licensed professional engineer, and by ingrained habit, I must do a rigourous diligence. It's also a smart way not to re-invent the wheel and save money. Also in my view of the world 360° Risk and Opportunity assessments are part of this process. Finally I believe down to my bones that anybody can and may have a better idea than I, or a highly pertinent question.
THOSE are the reasons I highly value your input, and, especially, Devil's Advocate questions Jagster you've been riding R3s a lot longer than I, AND, are mechanically minded.

Please continue to advocate for the dark one so more possible issues be identified and tacked. Thanks !
xian
 
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What shape, size, volume are these kevlar fuel tanks? Are they the shape of a conventional pressure vessel, or are they more freeform in shape?
 
seems that getting a custom made DOT approved propane tank would be expensive. Why not just replace the fuel tank with the standard propane tank, buy the conversion set (there are multiple) and be done with it?
 
Well, way back in the 80's, I worked for a propane company, "converting" vehicles to propane. Cars, trucks, fork lifts, stationary pumps, on and on. It ain't that hard to do. I had a Plymouth Fury with a 400 ci engine, and a "dual" system installed. Could run on either gasoline, or propane. Propane system mounted on the gasoline carburetor, replacing the air cleaner assembly. Electric solenoid valve in both gasoline line, and propane line. To switch from gasoline to propane, close the gasoline valve, (easier to do while driving) wait till it runs the carburetor dry, and then turn on the propane. Propane output is through a pressure regulator, very similar in theory to a scuba breathing system. As the engine draws in, the valve lets in the correct amount of propane. Also required is a converter, usually connected to the heater hoses, that turns the liquid propane into a vapor. For small engines, a device called a "sput-in", just a nozzle that you insert in the proper place of the carburetor, by drilling a hole. BTW, propane enters the engine as a gas vapor. Does not wash oil off the cylinder walls, lengthening the engine life. No warm up required, and at the time I was doing it, was about 120 octane rated. It was going to be the BIG thing at the time, as the Gobment had not yet attached road tax, etc. etc. but it didn't take long for them to catch on. Just about any big propane delivery truck you may see on the road, is running off the propane in it's big tank. Now my head hurts.........