Plea for tuning help.

[WyldCFH]

To be brutally honest, you would have trouble getting your bike tuned properly if you bought a fuc$ing muffler such is the level of skill oozing out of tuning shops . Ask Paul Bryant. I sort of think I am going to get this guy sorted. Any income I made on the sale is long gone, from my point of view it is a total waste of time, not just for me, but for the customer. It would seem like he has had a competent mechanic install some parts to his motor. Then fit a set of my cams. I have even made them so no skill at all is needed to fit them,just bolt in, no dialling. All good , but it runs like shyte after paying for a dyno tune. The guy has a P Commander on his bike, the EASIEST thing in the world to tune with. Most of these clowns use the Harley SEPST software all day, which is much more complex than PC V or even Tune Ecu/Tune boy, but they still cannot do it. This is not even a tricky build.... If tuning this bike was surfing, we are not asking for them to hang ten, just get the fuc$ing board out of the bag.

This is the most I have posted here for ages, thanks for the suggestions, apologies for not being a positive post.

I agree, and the reason no tuner has been into my ECU. I'm using @Penner tune as the bike he tuned was "close enough" to my build to get me by. A PC V with Auto Tune should smooth out the rough spots until I can get to a real TuneECU tuner.

No worries on the tone of your post. I deal with some "certified" IT professionals quite often and it frustrates because what they do is extremely easy. But they can't grasp it, or don't try.

 

[Claviger]

Man I can only wonder at the frustration Nels. Try and support a global market and constantly end up with challenges out of your control.

 

[Neville Lush]

but wada ya do when a Hardley dyno shop gets 150+ HP from a Rocket and goes "Gee Wow" we don't have to do any thing to this beast !

This is pretty much the problem, Customer has been given a sheet for 170hp and told it is good. His bike should do 200 all day, he has all the right bits.

 

[scot in exile]

Our very own NL is going over and above for the customer, when you sell a kit for a customer to install himself that is where your part of the transaction ends, much respect for going out of your way to help him out.

 

[Mittzy]

HMMM Sounds like there is OPPORTUNITY for a mobile dyno guy in the USA and New Zealand

 

[Claviger]

Indeed, we know there is in the West of the US. Our guru up here does take his trailer dyno on trips and has hundreds of bikes waiting for him when he arrives at a location. People come far and wide to Nels to get tunes done.

The problem is, there's only one Nels and so many bikes lol!

This is one of the reasons I'm considering as my Army retirement internship doing a tech cert for motorcycles and doing the optional brand specialization courses for the big 4, HD and Triumph. Will be no money out of pocket to me and create massive opportunity for me to slot into a shop and run their dyno or mobile dyno and provide another option for people from a tuner who actually gives a **** about how people's bikes run instead of cranking out garbage and charging people for garbage.

Would be one of the careers I set myself up for, among a few others.

 

[barbagris]

HMMM Sounds like there is OPPORTUNITY for a mobile dyno guy in the USA and New Zealand

And Spain. Every year at teh Spanish GP - guys with mobile Dynos turn up from Holland and make a killing. But they can afford to as after they can F*ck off back to Holland and pretty much guaranty the guy who has that extra 10bhp will never come back to them.

Rob - unless you REALLY want to tune bikes for guys who in the main will not appreciate the work that goes into it - I would not mix pleasure with work. I have made that mistake before with guns. Why make a 1/8MOA rifle for a guy who will never shoot past 120metres and maybe fires 5 practise rounds a year? - he still won't actually hit anything reliably (though the gun will).

 

[Speedy]

My oh my!!! Tuning an engine is not about being able to use software: it is a procedure requiring understanding engine dynamics, how variables affect those dynamics, and then how to isolate them sufficiently to adjust one without impacting others without knowing you are doing so. The software is nothing more than a sophisticated wrench. Tuning is a skill that requires intelligence, knowledge, "feel" as in seat of the pants, and practice.

Much of the problem can be traced back to Dyno-Jet and their marketing. "Anybody can tune with our easy to use equipment and software. One hour and you can make $300.00." What an effing load of bull!! Many people cannot do it well no matter how hard they try.

Pulling several full throttle runs which last maybe 4 seconds each, checking a readout showing A:F ratio, and declaring the tune is good once adjusted to a constant 13:1 is not tuning. It is a test only of full throttle operation at a prescribed acceleration rate! If you go looking for the biggest numbers and that is the only thing you want, tuning is easy. But you may not like riding your bike home.

News flash: Some motors run and perform better at full throttle when the A:F is not constant. And no one, not even drag racers run at full throttle only.

Inertia dynos are severely limited in the data that can be garnered from their use. They are simply one tool available to a tuner. Experience with the particular engine family is very important. Taking an R3 to a Harley tuner who has never ridden a Rocket before is just begging for a crappy tune. Not that he or she can't figure it out but expect your bike to be ridden multiple times over several days. Maybe after about $1,500.00 and three days you might have a reasonable tune if the base tune is close to start with and if the tuner is good.

Consumers also have some unrealistic expectations. There is an expectation that a "tuner" can do in one hour what took a team of OEM engineers weeks or months to accomplish. Secondly, the al e carte shopping for performance parts can and often does result in compromised performance that no tuner can magically correct.

Using a tuner who speciallizes in tuning your brand and type of bike is the most effective use of your money. Call them first, BEFORE BUYING ANY PERFORMANCE PARTS, and ask them what works, what doesn't, and which pieces work well together to achieve what you want to accomplish. Then listen to what they tell you. You will be much happier in the end.

 

[Joesmoe]

@Speedy pure gold.

For those who would seek to benefit from the expertise you describe, where to go ?

I called a shop near me listed on the DynoJet locator, and he said right off, "We don't tune. If you insist, we send our measurements off to 'somewhere' and something comes back and we try that."

Perhaps I better understand Don Quixote.

My quest continues.

 

[sonny]

My oh my!!! Tuning an engine is not about being able to use software: it is a procedure requiring understanding engine dynamics, how variables affect those dynamics, and then how to isolate them sufficiently to adjust one without impacting others without knowing you are doing so. The software is nothing more than a sophisticated wrench. Tuning is a skill that requires intelligence, knowledge, "feel" as in seat of the pants, and practice.

Much of the problem can be traced back to Dyno-Jet and their marketing. "Anybody can tune with our easy to use equipment and software. One hour and you can make $300.00." What an effing load of bull!! Many people cannot do it well no matter how hard they try.

Pulling several full throttle runs which last maybe 4 seconds each, checking a readout showing A:F ratio, and declaring the tune is good once adjusted to a constant 13:1 is not tuning. It is a test only of full throttle operation at a prescribed acceleration rate! If you go looking for the biggest numbers and that is the only thing you want, tuning is easy. But you may not like riding your bike home.

News flash: Some motors run and perform better at full throttle when the A:F is not constant. And no one, not even drag racers run at full throttle only.

Inertia dynos are severely limited in the data that can be garnered from their use. They are simply one tool available to a tuner. Experience with the particular engine family is very important. Taking an R3 to a Harley tuner who has never ridden a Rocket before is just begging for a crappy tune. Not that he or she can't figure it out but expect your bike to be ridden multiple times over several days. Maybe after about $1,500.00 and three days you might have a reasonable tune if the base tune is close to start with and if the tuner is good.

Consumers also have some unrealistic expectations. There is an expectation that a "tuner" can do in one hour what took a team of OEM engineers weeks or months to accomplish. Secondly, the al e carte shopping for performance parts can and often does result in compromised performance that no tuner can magically correct.

Using a tuner who speciallizes in tuning your brand and type of bike is the most effective use of your money. Call them first, BEFORE BUYING ANY PERFORMANCE PARTS, and ask them what works, what doesn't, and which pieces work well together to achieve what you want to accomplish. Then listen to what they tell you. You will be much happier in the end.

WELL SAID