Not Happy! 3rd brake bleed required.

Why, in Germany, are they changing out the "tubes" (brake lines) as a solution? Same lines or different than originals? Are they changing both front and back?

Because it shall solve the problem.

The lines are different - they changed the way they do the press fitting and they only change the brake lines to the back. The front never had problems.

And the cause for not having accidents is easily explained: you have an integrated brake system - when you use the front brake, the one in the back is always in use, too. The modulator is fast enough to create enough pressure even though you have air in the system...
 

OK, so, this points to the rear brake line as definitely being THE problem.

Do you know if they replace #34 in the diagram , #22 , or both? My guess is it's #34, since it's not available for purchase.

If that's the problem, why isn't that line being replaced routinely everywhere (not just Germany) when the dealers keep doing ABS bleeds?
 
My rear brake line runs from top of engine down to the top of swingarm. I just don't see how that could be getting hot from the exhaust. That giant aluminum swingarm between them should be soaking up any heat before the brake line does.
 
I can't see why it would be a brake line issue. If there was an inconsistency in the crimping , enough to let air in, then surely it would be enough to let brake fluid, under pressure, out.
IMO, there are only two places that could potentially allow air Ingres. Master cylinder or calliper seals.
Over heating of fluid may cause it to boil and loose consistency, but would not introduce air into the system. Once it stops boiling, gases would be reabsorbed into the fluid.
My 2003 Suzuki SV1000 clutch fluid used to discolour on a regular basis. It turned out that chain lube/grime was being sucked past the seal, each time the slave cylinder was being actuated. There were work arounds available, but they involved machining a recess and an additional wiper o-ring. But the issue was due to a design flaw.

If Triumph were to admit that the master cylinders were a problem, a recall would cost them dearly. Parts and labour, loss of sales of new bikes and damage to the Brand. All of these factors come into play in their decision on how to deal with the issue.
It's an issue that they are obliged to deal with under warranty, but in their economic eyes, bleeding the system rectifies the issue and satisfies their duty of care.

I worked for a company that bought a particular sensor from China, replacing a know quality sensor, because of economics.
The new sensors cost the company $6 instead of $12, for the quality one.
When you buy a container full, it's a huge saving.
We, the technicians, proceeded to install these new sensors in the field, replacing old faulty units and new installs, nation wide.
The cheap units soon failed and proved to be a poor investment, but the company honoured warranty and continued to deploy them into the field. Technicians scratching their heads as to why we were still using these poor quality units. Customers being upset at failures of a product that they had paid good money for.
They continued to be deployed until all stock was used up and only then did the company switch to a better quality and more expensive unit.
In economic terms, it cost them more money in warranty replacement, both labour and parts, than it would have cost to scrap the entire stock. But in the magical world of accounting, it made sense on someone's pie chart.

It seems that customer satisfaction is very low on the priority scale, these days.
 
I'm pretty sure the brakes are not integrated. The ABS function is but the front and rear are two separate hydraulic systems. They only use the same abs modulator as to integrate the abs from front to rear. The modulator doesn't create pressure like an abs system with a pump like a lot of cars. It traps pressure from the modulator to the calipers releasing it as needed per speed and slip. That's the pulsing as it bleeds a bit off at a time. The brake levers are specific to front or rear, not integrated like some. The Honda Goldwing is integrated as it has rear brake line to front calipers and front brake lines to rear caliper. Each pushes on their own pistons in the calipers.
 

it has always amazed me how big bussiness works
i did auto transmissions for a large company to save money ($50 each) they went with a different company and it wasn't a year till they was begging me to do there work
(don't take long when the higher bosses have to walk that things change.) before (long time ago) it was running $3000 a year the next year it was 10,000 a year to correct the problems.
there is no way i try to buy those cheap parts. you save $20 and you wind up with a $1000 come back.
 
I have an appointment on Thursday at the Triumph dealer. It has been only 3,600 miles from the last bleed. It doesn't sound good because 'warranty' was the first word out of the dealer/tech's mouth when we talked on the phone. He seemed slightly irritated I was questioning the last attempted fix to the brake under warranty only being 3,600 miles before it became useless, again. If they make me pay for it I will of course as I have little choice. My main concern is that this keeps happening. Am I suppose to pay for a new brake bleed every 3,600 miles? Oh well, I'm going full worse case scenario so we shall see.
 
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They replace 22 & 34 - but the second question I can not answer... keep in mind that also here they do not pay for it - it's paid by "CarGarantie". Here we have 2+2 years of warranty, and actually we are in the second part of it - this is an external, additional warranty...
 

If this is true (not doubting you) then we've just solved the rear brake issue. So, now, how to get a hold of part #34?

@Rockatansky if you go on a German dealer's website, is part #34 available?

I'm just curious why in the USA, for example, Triumph would choose to tie up their service department for three brake bleeds, ala @Mighty Mouse, rather than replace those lines the first time, bleed once, and be done with it.