New member in Japan: 30A fuse blowing (horn, turn signals)

[Ishrub]

I had to reduce these due to forum restrictions to 1600 pixels.
If you wish larger versions send me a PM with your email.
Hope this helps:

They zoom out fine at 200% with + onscreen magnifier.
The 1st one is titled SERVICE MANUAL ROCKET III / CLASSIC/ TOURING/ ROADSTER
The 2nd one is titled CIRCUIT DIAGRAM COMPLETE SYSTEM ROCKET III ROADSTER - Up to VIN 482857 and from VIN 500141 to VIN 503166

My 2010 Model Year (plated 12/2009) VIN is SMTTLC0235A432260 so I presume that means the 2nd one covers my Roadster. But is the 1st one the same - I have not checked them closely for differences?

I have gladly downloaded and printed the complete Rocket III Manual version @idk has kindly provided in his signature block. Is there a later version for the Roadster available online or in these forums? @DEcosse would know I am sure.

 

[DEcosse]

The 1st one is titled SERVICE MANUAL ROCKET III / CLASSIC/ TOURING/ ROADSTER
The 2nd one is titled CIRCUIT DIAGRAM COMPLETE SYSTEM ROCKET III ROADSTER - Up to VIN 482857 and from VIN 500141 to VIN 503166

What you are quoting as the title for the first one, is just the Service Manual Reference - and that schematic comes from a manual that covers ALL those models; if you look to the top THAT is the title and that specifically identifies the model and the VIN Range

My 2010 Model Year ..... VIN is*** 432260 so I presume that means the 2nd one covers my Roadster. But is the 1st one the same - I have not checked them closely for differences?

....

From your VIN, you definitely have the initial release Roadster; the difference between the 'early' and 'late' Roadster schematic (& actual wiring) is that the early STILL has the headlight current through the Key-Switch (similar to the std/classic wiring that is prone to key-switch failure); there is a Triumph recall that adds a second relay to bypass that current out of the Key-Switch circuit - although it is NOT exactly as per the 'late' model circuit.
You should check to see if you have had the recall done; if not you should contact Triumph to see if it is eligible; if for whatever reason they say it is not, you can add a second relay simply yourself.

With some information from @mully95 I put together the following summary of the differences between early Roadster, Recalled Roadster and Late Roadster with respect to the Headight & Starter Wiring

The difference in the 'recall version' vs the 'Late' Version is:
With the recall version, this still pulls the starter solenoid current through the Key-Switch (this is about 10A, about the same current consumed by twin headlights)
Since this is only a short duration load (while the starter is operating) it is not quite so taxing to the switch as the unmodified version - which will suffer the same reliability issue as the std/classic.
With the 'late' version, the current for neither the headlights NOR the starter solenoid goes through the Key-Switch.

I'm not sure why Triumph did not execute the 'recall' utilizing the same circuit as the 'Late' model; it would have been just as simple, same number of components and wires involved.
Here is how you can change it if you really want to (& if DIY, I would go this route vs the recall route)

 

[Ishrub]

Thanks DEcosse that is wonderfully clear and instructive.

 

[DEcosse]

We're way off the original topic ..............
But just to continue with the tangential 'theme' ..........
For anyone with a std/classic model that wants to achieve a SIMPLE key-switch bypass circuit, the mod described (whether original or my 'revised' version) can also be executed on those.
That is MUCH less involved than a full headlight relay kit.

What is the difference vs a 'full' headlight relay kit?
A 'full' headlight relay kit has improved wire gauge to each headlight and to each beam; it requires two relays, one for 2 x high beam and one for 2 x low beam.
With a 'more direct' current path (that does not involve going through the hi/lo switch plus additional connectors, let alone bypass the key-switch) you actually get a performance gain of the headlights in terms of light output, due to improved voltage at the lamps themselves (lower resistance path means less voltage drop from the source)
So while the 'late' Roadster (and recall Roadster) versions both no longer have any key-switch reliability issues, there is still potentially some upside in performance gain (although the late version and also my 'revised' recall version will both deliver better performance than a std/classic or unmodified 'early' Roadster.


And the last (hopefully!) piece of the story ;
The Touring version only has one headlight so pulls less current through it than a std/classic;
Note that the same circuit however also supplies the fuel pump (this current will be continuous while bike is running; & it also has to deliver the full starter solenoid current (again, ~ 10A)
Now - generally, there should be no issues with the key-switch failing on the Touring which is running less CONSTANT current through it than the std/classic;
however, recently we have seen a few Touring versions that have suffered from burning of the connector (although none that I have identified affirmatively as an actual key-switch failure.
So - purely from a 'ounce of prevention' medicine, this same mod (the extra relay) could very easily be also used on the Touring.

Here are the differences in the key-switch current (primary circuit feeds Headlight/Starter PLUS Ignition)

Std/Classic - Two 55/60W headlights (or starter solenoid) PLUS Fuel Pump Current plus ignition circuit current
Early Roadster - Two 55/60W headlights (or starter solenoid) plus ignition circuit current
Recall* Roadster - starter solenoid (momentary load only while starter operating) plus ignition circuit current
Late Roadster - Only Ignition circuit current
Touring - One 55/60W Headlight (or starter solenoid) PLUS Fuel Pump Current plus ignition circuit current

* The actual triumph recall version

Each headlight draws about 5A and the Fuel Pump I would estimate to be about 4A and the starter solenoid draws about 10A. The 'ignition circuit' outside of the pump is not that great but I mention it - it supplies the ECU 'on' signal but not the main current for the ECU and also various instrument sundries.

 

[1olbull]

What you are quoting as the title for the first one, is just the Service Manual Reference - and that schematic comes from a manual that covers ALL those models; if you look to the top THAT is the title and that specifically identifies the model and the VIN Range

From your VIN, you definitely have the initial release Roadster; the difference between the 'early' and 'late' Roadster schematic (& actual wiring) is that the early STILL has the headlight current through the Key-Switch (similar to the std/classic wiring that is prone to key-switch failure); there is a Triumph recall that adds a second relay to bypass that current out of the Key-Switch circuit - although it is NOT exactly as per the 'late' model circuit.
You should check to see if you have had the recall done; if not you should contact Triumph to see if it is eligible; if for whatever reason they say it is not, you can add a second relay simply yourself.

With some information from @mully95 I put together the following summary of the differences between early Roadster, Recalled Roadster and Late Roadster with respect to the Headight & Starter Wiring

The difference in the 'recall version' vs the 'Late' Version is:
With the recall version, this still pulls the starter solenoid current through the Key-Switch (this is about 10A, about the same current consumed by twin headlights)
Since this is only a short duration load (while the starter is operating) it is not quite so taxing to the switch as the unmodified version - which will suffer the same reliability issue as the std/classic.
With the 'late' version, the current for neither the headlights NOR the starter solenoid goes through the Key-Switch.
I'm not sure why Triumph did not execute the 'recall' utilizing the same circuit as the 'Late' model; it would have been just as simple, same number of components and wires involved.
Here is how you can change it if you really want to (& if DIY, I would go this route vs the recall route)

Amigo,
Regarding your revised, why are two fuses necessary?

 

[Ishrub]

@DEcosse Your doco and advice in Post#12 is great. I made a .pdf file and printed it but cannot upload .pdf files here.

I am happy to email it to anyone if they want a copy, send me a PM or email pwhite60@iinet.net.au

 

[TURBO200R4]

the first post said it blew the 30 amp fuse on my bike that is the main fuse. also bigger than the rest.
if he is actually talking the main fuse his problem could be anywhere.
i have read threads about loose connectors at that fuse location.

 

[DEcosse]

Yes, one part of that statement is wrong - question is which?
Is it the main fuse (30A) or is it that Brake/Turns/Horn Fuse which should be 15A (but was possibly replaced by 30A after it blew)

 

[TURBO200R4]

that is the problem with not being able to talk direct to the person. if they are guessing at the problem then u will be guessing with several different answers.
the answer to is it the big fuse or the little fuse would eliminate half of the trouble shooting.

 

[Lee]

that is the problem with not being able to talk direct to the person. if they are guessing at the problem then u will be guessing with several different answers.
the answer to is it the big fuse or the little fuse would eliminate half of the trouble shooting.[/Q

First of all I want to thank all of you for the great response to my problem and yes I was able to solve it...there was a wire being pulled when I turned right that was causing the fuse to blow and yes it was the horn/turn signals/brake fuse that should have been a 15a but had been replaced with a 30a for some unknown reason. Although my trip was cut short I made it home with my problem solved. Thanks again!!!