Lower Timing Chain Blew-up!!!!!!!

[warp9.9]

Hey all...well, I have an 05 RIII Classic with 7600 miles on it that has been stored on a stand but started periodically for the past 18 months...the last 3.5 years I've been deployed and the bike only came down a couple of times over that period. Sadly, I noticed a rough-feeling, almost a scrape, as if the starter was engaging while riding at low speed that is most prevalent around my right front foot peg...I now notice the infamous paint can rattle and can duplicate a sort of bearing squeal type noise rolling normally on throttle in 1/2nd gear between 13-2200 rpm. I'm certain it is the same culprit. I just tried rocking the bike back and forth in gear to kick the tensioner over a tooth (another site points to this as possible remedy), no joy. I've already spoke with Peter (James actually) in GA and explained what I hear, feel, and what I've read. I didn't get any promises and was informed that these sites are not endorsed by Triumph (why would they be-bunch of honest people posting honest problems?). Anyway, he said take it in, let the dealer look at it, and have them contact TC-hope it works out. I'm a wrench (Army helos) and half-tempted to do the work myself although my time is limited. I am filing a complaint with the NHTSA in the hopes that they recall this thing before someone gets hurt. There are a LOT of people out there that have had horrible troubles with this and thankfully have not been hurt yet. I am disheartened as I LOVE the bike and don't make a fortune to pay for maintenance. I was so excited to have it paid off, now I'm nervous...I've printed out pages from this and other sites hoping it will help with Triumph's decision to cover my out of warranty barely ridden $16K motorcycle....thank you all for the info.

JW are you sure yours is a 05 ? if so it is not a classic as they did not make them until 06. In 05 there was aproblem with the crank gear. I believe it was a heat treatment issue as the keyway got sloppy causing the rattle. Triumph changed the tensioner guide in 06 from the aluminum to a black one with steel backing on it and for some reason went back in 07 I believe if not 08. The update kit changes back to the aluminum guide. I think what happens is the chain gets loose and start banging the duides and the tensioner which creates the slopp in the keyway. Another cause could be loosing tension on the tensioner eioth by the plunger kicking back or the end og the guide getting screwed up from puonding the tensioner when there is slack in the chain.



the two different styles with one aluminum piece that failed
not the failure below


below is the culprit

the chewed up end allowed the chain to whip and bash the guide which cracked it in the center.

If your a wrench you can do the fix easily in 4 hours. If Triumph is going to foot the bill which it sounds to me like you struck up a good conversation with them, so I would let them fix her if they are paying for it.

Triumph corporate does watch these sites and they also have great memories especially when it comes to doing warranty work out of the warranty period. Depending on one communication skills is directly proportional to the amount of help you get from them. Trash them on these sites and help is not as readily available when your out of the two years warranty period.

Some people may not like this but is is the truth you catch more flies with sugar then manure. Triumph does not endorse these sites do to liability factors. You get guys on here that are new and swarms of people try telling them to switch to car tires and other various things that Triumph will not reccomend. I can not blame them either, as they most likely take everything posted on these sites with a grain of salt.

Good luck and if you tackle the job yourself and need help let me know I have torn into mine many times latley just to dial up new cam settings. Its a fairly easy job and the only specail tool you will need is the cam alignment tool.

 

[9Ball]

The negative press is well deserved...they are inconsistent at best and getting their feelings hurt is no excuse for poor customer service. They are big boys and should well understand that a problem is a big deal for the end customer that has time, money, and emotional connections to the bike.

A quality company will always step up to the plate....and my experience is that they are not a quality company here in the US. These are tough economic times and a little compassion goes a long way to good press and customer satisfaction. I would love to spread the word about how great Triumph is, but I can't. They have left me hanging and I'm sure there are others in this boat. What has me confused is that I never asked for anything other than help diagnosing the problem so that it can be fixed right the first time. It's now in the shop for the second time because they decided to walk away from me. I never got nasty or disrespectful with the people at Triumph, so I'm very confused by their attitude and position.

Good luck with your issues...I sure hope they prove me wrong in your case.

 

[warp9.9]

The negative press is well deserved...they are inconsistent at best and getting their feelings hurt is no excuse for poor customer service. They are big boys and should well understand that a problem is a big deal for the end customer that has time, money, and emotional connections to the bike.

A quality company will always step up to the plate....and my experience is that they are not a quality company here in the US. These are tough economic times and a little compassion goes a long way to good press and customer satisfaction. I would love to spread the word about how great Triumph is, but I can't. They have left me hanging and I'm sure there are others in this boat. What has me confused is that I never asked for anything other than help diagnosing the problem so that it can be fixed right the first time. It's now in the shop for the second time because they decided to walk away from me. I never got nasty or disrespectful with the people at Triumph, so I'm very confused by their attitude and position.

Good luck with your issues...I sure hope they prove me wrong in your case.

John I understand you being upset and I am sure you treated Peter with respect. What I am not sure of is why Triumph did not put the boots to the dealer that did not perform the update kit correctly. I would like to know a few things also like did they do the complete update kit or not. (I know it is not right) If it is not back in the shop yet I am curious if the did the wiring updates. There is two Plugs that get work on one gets totally replaced and the other has to do with the ignition. From reading the directions to the update kit there are three wires that get cut from the plugin and then a seperate plug for them is installed. And then there is one that gets completely replaced. I ask this as people here talk so well about XXX and there update kits and I wanted you to know that your dealer is not the only one that does not do the complete update kit. None of the wireing changes were done on mine and their tech XXX told me its working why replace it. (names have been removed to protect the guilty) I did talk him into letting me have the large plug so I could do it myself and had I known about the other plug in I would have asked for it also. Don't get me wrong the part of the kit (tranny) that they did do is holding up fine. Nut when you do stuff this way you have plenty of free parts left over to sell to other Captians as they need it. In my case I suspect they did not know I was going to tear into my engine to add Horse power this last winter so they did not realise that I would notice some of the other goodies they did not replace. Lifter piece, timing chain are two that come to mind. I bet if I had the aluminum tensioner guide it would not have been replaced either. This is why they have stuff instock on the shelf unlike other dealers. I sur ehope non of the vital stuff has been left out or I will be doing it myself next time. I do not believe this reflects bad on Triumph Corperation just on the dealer that does the work. Hell I trailered mine home and then had to order exhaust nuts to replace the ones they could not seem to torque down.(They rattled off on the trailer on the way home with the bike)
I do believe your problem is with the dealer and I would hope Triumph would lean on them for you. If not an attorney is the next best thing to get their attention. I know you have talked to Peter but did you ask him if he could speak on your behalf to the dealer who messed it up ?

 

[HellFire]

Arrrgggg ... I ask you WHO in their right mind would buy a motorbike with such problems ?!? That would just be crazy.

 

[9Ball]

John I understand you being upset and I am sure you treated Peter with respect. What I am not sure of is why Triumph did not put the boots to the dealer that did not perform the update kit correctly. I would like to know a few things also like did they do the complete update kit or not. (I know it is not right) If it is not back in the shop yet I am curious if the did the wiring updates. There is two Plugs that get work on one gets totally replaced and the other has to do with the ignition. From reading the directions to the update kit there are three wires that get cut from the plugin and then a seperate plug for them is installed. And then there is one that gets completely replaced. I ask this as people here talk so well about XXX and there update kits and I wanted you to know that your dealer is not the only one that does not do the complete update kit. None of the wireing changes were done on mine and their tech XXX told me its working why replace it. (names have been removed to protect the guilty) I did talk him into letting me have the large plug so I could do it myself and had I known about the other plug in I would have asked for it also. Don't get me wrong the part of the kit (tranny) that they did do is holding up fine. Nut when you do stuff this way you have plenty of free parts left over to sell to other Captians as they need it. In my case I suspect they did not know I was going to tear into my engine to add Horse power this last winter so they did not realise that I would notice some of the other goodies they did not replace. Lifter piece, timing chain are two that come to mind. I bet if I had the aluminum tensioner guide it would not have been replaced either. This is why they have stuff instock on the shelf unlike other dealers. I sur ehope non of the vital stuff has been left out or I will be doing it myself next time. I do not believe this reflects bad on Triumph Corperation just on the dealer that does the work. Hell I trailered mine home and then had to order exhaust nuts to replace the ones they could not seem to torque down.(They rattled off on the trailer on the way home with the bike)
I do believe your problem is with the dealer and I would hope Triumph would lean on them for you. If not an attorney is the next best thing to get their attention. I know you have talked to Peter but did you ask him if he could speak on your behalf to the dealer who messed it up ?

Warp,

The new dealer called and spoke with Triumph after pulling the clutch to make sure it wasn't something simple and got yhe same "party line" that they've done everything they plan to do for me to correct an obvious manufacturer's defect. The dealer that installed the Update Kit, Manayunk Triumph (BTW, highly recommended but can't live up to that kudos), did not install all the parts sent to them even though they charged me the labor for the installs...this includes the tank sender and associated parts, the ignition update and wiring changes, and who knows what else they half-assed or cheated me out of. I'm asking the new dealr to verify these weren't installed for future legal actions.

BTW, the new dealer showed me the clutch basket which is broken. Manayunk had pulled this before getting the authorization for the Update Kit, then said it was satisfactory and re-installed. The only mileage put on the bike after picking up from Manayunk was the ride home, approximately 40 miles. The bike was trailered to the new dealer, so it was essentially un-ridden after they worked on the bike. Here's another $500 out of my pocket that I'm going to have to include in my future actions.

 

[warp9.9]

John I really feel for you and I wish Triumph would assits you if they could especailly since they gave this GUMP dealer good parts to fix your bike with. I do however beleive the stealer needs to go to court for he is the one who took good parts and either installed them wrong or did not install them at all. I truly hope you get your bike done as you deserve it for sure and then some. I think this is why Triumph has moved their mark and are losing these small petty dealers that screw people no matter which brand of product they sell.

Your problem is different from some other on the other site as you have not got any miles on yours at all. **** only 40. So it can not be anything you did or did not do.

 

[jetdok5]

I have a 07 tour classic that I bought used with 7900 miles and I am pretty sure I have identified the source of the rattle Yes, I have it.comes and goes as load is applied. At a even cruise it rattles.let off a littl...it goes away. You can control and hear it with throttle application. I am new to rockets but been a tech my whole life and am pretty sure it's the cam chain thing. Removing the inspection cover, everything looks fine. Put in an allen and turn back and forth, just a little, shows play . This indicates a worn key or gear...thus the rattle.
Can I just change the gear and key thru the hole??? If so, how do I ensure the chain does not move? I read on this board where it said NOT to remove the tensioner assy without removing the top cover and holding the cams. Once again..new to rockets.

I will say that this thing is a beast , compared to my gl1800....it is night and day. I love my wing but i am pretty sure I will be happy with the rocket once I learn it's limits. I run my wing to the limits and so far, I don't trust the rear on the r3...especially under hard braking.
Any help would be greatly appreciated!


JETDOK5

 

[warp9.9]

no you can not just change the gear thru the hole you will loose the timing between crank and cams and have a catastrophic event you would not like. You need to change the gear key and get a new chain on her while your in her. Plus if you have the old black style cam guide on the tensioner side you should update it to the newer style while your in there.

 

[jetdok5]

Yes, looking in there, it appears I have the black tensioner. Can I fish the chain down in there or does the front cover have to come off....along with anti-freeze...etc??? Any legit shortcuts?

 

[Trirocket3]

Yes, looking in there, it appears I have the black tensioner. Can I fish the chain down in there or does the front cover have to come off....along with anti-freeze...etc??? Any legit shortcuts?

Front cover off
Scott has the world record for fastest removal, for any tips he's your man