Is it really worth it to remove the secondary butterflies?

[ROCKET415]

My father owns an '07 classic, with tuneboy, PC3, under-the-tank air filter and removed secondary plates. The bike runs fine with the secondaries in and O2 sensor present and on. As soon as we take the plates out and either turn off the O2 sensor or adjust the A/F ratio to 13 and change (we've experimented with both), the bike will run good for approximately 200 miles. It then abruptly begins running like crap. Idle goes from ~800 up to ~1500 and the overall performance throughout the entire rpm range goes down the toilet (lugs, spits, pops, etc). These symptoms seem to mimic a bike with removed secondaries but a still present and turned on O2 sensor. I want to get rid of the secondaries in my '12 roadster but am leary after seeing what my dad has gone through. Any thoughts or suggestions?

 

[tekardi]

My father owns an '07 classic, with tuneboy, PC3, under-the-tank air filter and removed secondary plates. The bike runs fine with the secondaries in and O2 sensor present and on. As soon as we take the plates out and either turn off the O2 sensor or adjust the A/F ratio to 13 and change (we've experimented with both), the bike will run good for approximately 200 miles. It then abruptly begins running like crap. Idle goes from ~800 up to ~1500 and the overall performance throughout the entire rpm range goes down the toilet (lugs, spits, pops, etc). These symptoms seem to mimic a bike with removed secondaries but a still present and turned on O2 sensor. I want to get rid of the secondaries in my '12 roadster but am leary after seeing what my dad has gone through. Any thoughts or suggestions?

Hello I have just make my mod in my classic, putting triples, GiPro, and aftermarket silencers, I asked about what to do with O2 and secondary's and a friend from here came to the rescue, his name is Mitch he gave me a new map that worked awesome in my bike without any complication till today if you want I can send you the Map that he gave ....your are not going to believe how The beast will perform , finally I did not have to remove anything just load the map from TuneEcu and perform the new setting , and its all done just let me know your email and I could send this map to you , have a nice ride!

Here is the probe ..how this baby is doing

 

[TriumPhil]

My father owns an '07 classic, with tuneboy, PC3, under-the-tank air filter and removed secondary plates. The bike runs fine with the secondaries in and O2 sensor present and on. As soon as we take the plates out and either turn off the O2 sensor or adjust the A/F ratio to 13 and change (we've experimented with both), the bike will run good for approximately 200 miles. It then abruptly begins running like crap. Idle goes from ~800 up to ~1500 and the overall performance throughout the entire rpm range goes down the toilet (lugs, spits, pops, etc). These symptoms seem to mimic a bike with removed secondaries but a still present and turned on O2 sensor. I want to get rid of the secondaries in my '12 roadster but am leary after seeing what my dad has gone through. Any thoughts or suggestions?

Sounds like a totally unrelated problem, more than likely a bad TPS (throttle position sensor) I'd guess, which is very common on the older models like ours. Other, more edumacated folks here will isolate the problem for you better than I can, presently...

 

[CanberraR3]

I agree with Phil. I pulled my secondaries with no probs. Still have O2 sensor. My mods are TORs, triples, GIPro, Dobeck and no secondaries. Runs smooth as silk, starts in half second (explodes into life), idles perfectly and goes like a scalded cat. Something else is up.

 

[Ygransom]

As soon as we take the plates out and either turn off the O2 sensor or adjust the A/F ratio to 13 and change (we've experimented with both), the bike will run good for approximately 200 miles. It then abruptly begins running like crap.

13:1 is on the rich side. The "perfect" A/F ratio os 14.6:1. Don't know how you ride but if a lot of stop and go could be fouling plugs.

 

[ROCKET415]

I'm sorry. I should have also mentioned we've replaced the throttle position sensor, map sensor, stepper motor, plugs and wires with no change. Also, after 200 miles when the bike starts acting up, the bike is retuned and runs good for another 200 miles before running like crap again. I think from what I'm reading here, there must be another issue. Has anyone experienced similar problems with either the roadster or older models?

 

[moklodge]

Canberra,

I'm planning to remove the secondaries in my 2009 Classic. I have Tors with the Triumph tune, underseat KN, PC5, GIPro. Do you think I will need to retune if I simply pull the secondaries now? Can I just compensate with the PC5? Would appreciate your advice on this since we have very similar setups. I didn't see any mention of Tuneboy or TuneEcu when you listed your mods and I don't plan to add either one.

 

[warp9.9]

My father owns an '07 classic, with tuneboy, PC3, under-the-tank air filter and removed secondary plates. The bike runs fine with the secondaries in and O2 sensor present and on. As soon as we take the plates out and either turn off the O2 sensor or adjust the A/F ratio to 13 and change (we've experimented with both), the bike will run good for approximately 200 miles. It then abruptly begins running like crap. Idle goes from ~800 up to ~1500 and the overall performance throughout the entire rpm range goes down the toilet (lugs, spits, pops, etc). These symptoms seem to mimic a bike with removed secondaries but a still present and turned on O2 sensor. I want to get rid of the secondaries in my '12 roadster but am leary after seeing what my dad has gone through. Any thoughts or suggestions?

If you change A/F in areas that were originally higher say up in the 14's you ecu is taking the amount of air programed in the Ftables calulating a new amout of fuel to add and squirting a hole bunch in. it could be making it run rich as hell in which case it will fall on its face. I suggest you put the original tune back in first and see if it makes a difference in the way it runs then we can go from there.

Are you on the .com site?

 

[warp9.9]

13:1 is on the rich side. The "perfect" A/F ratio os 14.6:1. Don't know how you ride but if a lot of stop and go could be fouling plugs.

only for fuel mileage and epa crap. depending on what area your engine is running in the A/F ratios will need to be and are different. Unless your not wanting to make power up top or at wide open throttle. Look at the stock maps as what you are saying must mean the engineers that wrote the original program/map must be bonkers.

 

[HansO]

Canberra,

I'm planning to remove the secondaries in my 2009 Classic. I have Tors with the Triumph tune, underseat KN, PC5, GIPro. Do you think I will need to retune if I simply pull the secondaries now? Can I just compensate with the PC5? Would appreciate your advice on this since we have very similar setups. I didn't see any mention of Tuneboy or TuneEcu when you listed your mods and I don't plan to add either one.

I'll answer this one for Richard, as yup already have theGIPro it will already fix the the retarded ignition as long as you have it set on position 3 it will also open the secondaries but I would still remove them as that will give a tad faster throttle response, Tuneboy or Tune ECU are not add on's they are simply software that allows you to change ECU settings and you won't need them for what you are doing but if you ever need to do any other problem solving or just simply balance you throttle bodies Tune ECU with a valuable software to have handy and the cable is only $20
If you ad the Auto Tune to your PCV I have a good map that will make her get up and Boogey