Is fork dipping when front brakes applied at very slow speed normal?

[rocketjohn]

Any bike will be tippy stopping in a curve. It took me scary times to learn to square up the bars when stopping regardless whether I have front brake on or what ever. It helps.

 

[Triple Trouble]

The Triumph Sprint I had before the Rocket was the same. I ride an '05 standard but it also dived . In traffic it drove me crazy as the slightest touch on the front brake sends the front end diving 3 or 4 inches. Problem solved with progressive springs on both bikes with the added benefit of improved handling.

 

[Thunderbloke54]

I have not tipped it over yet but been close so I feel your worry. I use only the rear brake to stabilise the bike when moving slowly - as much as possible with feet up. With feet down you cannot exert the same forces to balance the bike. I can manage almost full lock turns just by controlling the speed on the rear brake - not much chance of this without the rear brake applied and I don't use the front when moving at very slow speeds.
As to your point about pushing the bike, I never had an issue with front forks diving so much to cause a problem, but I always keep the side stand down so if it does 'go' i can at least try to save it on the stand.

 

[ZoneIII]

The first time it tipped was the day I picked it up! I live on a very busy state highway. My driveway is gravel and drops sharply from the street. It's bumpy where it meets the street too. But I made it in but as I was slowing to a stop, I had my feet down when almost stopped and had to use the front brake. Down it went! I've had a few drops since but not for the last 5 weeks or so until last week. (Another story.)

As for only using the rear brakes when stopping slow, the problem I have is that, say, I'm in stop and go traffic where the cars move up and stop, etc., at a stop sign. Moving up 15 or 20 feet and stopping repeatedly makes it hard for me to get my brake foot up so I've found myself with both feet down, inching up. I HATE THAT with this bike! So I only have the front brake in that situation.

That said, my stops are getting better but about every 5th or 6th stop is rough, jerking my wife forward if shes on the back, for example. Those tip-overs really psyched me out, though. Sickening feeling. Of course, I'm having a little difficulty on stops on steep inclines and I'll be doing a lot of that on my long trip to the west coast next month.

Like I said, I never even thought about this with my bikes in the past. It simply was never an issue. But those bikes were a lot lighter.

For the first couple weeks after picking up the bike, I was so spooked that I was making excuses NOT to ride and rides were stressful - particularly stops. Now I'm enjoying it but every once in a while I still get a rough stop that almost tips the bike.

This whole thing is embarrassing to admit. I never thought any bike would ever psych me out.

All that said, I would like to know more about progressive springs. I'll have to look that up.

Thanks again, guys, and I really appreciate the fact that nobody made me feel like an even bigger idiot that I feel like now! In fact, after reading the responses and knowing that others have experienced similar things, I'm actually improving faster. When I thought it was just me, it messed me up.

 

[sonny]

I have been riding motorcycles for a very long time. When I bought the Harley Fatboy in Tulsa I jumped on board and rode straight off the lot. No problem but by the time I got home I had all ready figured out the bike itself was boring. Bought the Rocket X in Oct down in Texas. Spent about four hours riding around side streets getting use to the bike. Wife and grand kid ate lunch in the parking lot while I rode around. When I got home with the bike the next day went to town and found a doctors office that was closed and used their parking lot for slow maneuver control. Never owned a bike that came with ABS so I was curious on how it worked in the real world. Now after close to 14,000 miles I have learned how to operate the brakes and come to a stop without looking like a Monkey Bucking a football. Practice. practice.Practice.

 

[FR56]

The original question is the very reason the BMW K1600, R1200RT and GS1200 feel so light and nimble compared to other bikes in their class. The 1200's Tele-lever or K1600's Duo-lever front suspensions on the BMWs does not compress from weight transfer under braking. Neither are they easily affected by negative torsional forces against the front wheel(like a rock or root in the trail or a crappy parking lot) .
Try riding down a steep, bumpy trail on a GS1200 compared to a Triumph Explorer 1200 or a Yamaha Super Tenere. Every time the front brake is applied with the telescopic forked bikes their suspension will compress, and every bump, rut, root, and rock will be harshly felt and translated into the handlebars. The Telelever on the GS1200 will not compress under braking allowing for full suspension sensitivity and travel.

BMW Telelever Fork System Gives Performance Leverage - Woman Motorcycle Enthusiast - MOTORESS

 

[Lostride]

The first time it tipped was the day I picked it up! I live on a very busy state highway. My driveway is gravel and drops sharply from the street. It's bumpy where it meets the street too. But I made it in but as I was slowing to a stop, I had my feet down when almost stopped and had to use the front brake. Down it went! I've had a few drops since but not for the last 5 weeks or so until last week. (Another story.)

As for only using the rear brakes when stopping slow, the problem I have is that, say, I'm in stop and go traffic where the cars move up and stop, etc., at a stop sign. Moving up 15 or 20 feet and stopping repeatedly makes it hard for me to get my brake foot up so I've found myself with both feet down, inching up. I HATE THAT with this bike! So I only have the front brake in that situation.

That said, my stops are getting better but about every 5th or 6th stop is rough, jerking my wife forward if shes on the back, for example. Those tip-overs really psyched me out, though. Sickening feeling. Of course, I'm having a little difficulty on stops on steep inclines and I'll be doing a lot of that on my long trip to the west coast next month.

Like I said, I never even thought about this with my bikes in the past. It simply was never an issue. But those bikes were a lot lighter.

For the first couple weeks after picking up the bike, I was so spooked that I was making excuses NOT to ride and rides were stressful - particularly stops. Now I'm enjoying it but every once in a while I still get a rough stop that almost tips the bike.

This whole thing is embarrassing to admit. I never thought any bike would ever psych me out.

All that said, I would like to know more about progressive springs. I'll have to look that up.

Thanks again, guys, and I really appreciate the fact that nobody made me feel like an even bigger idiot that I feel like now! In fact, after reading the responses and knowing that others have experienced similar things, I'm actually improving faster. When I thought it was just me, it messed me up.

I understand your pain! the Rocket is a big bike, but I find it better to not focus on that, instead focus on the physics. Momentum is your friend and your back brake is too. If the terrain looks a bit difficult I revert to treating it a bit like a dirt bike, don't concentrate on the terrain so much as where you want to go (or stop). When I pull up in stop/start type traffic etc. I use the back brake to moderate my speed and in the last bit I use the front exclusively because I need my right foot to be available, I often have my left foot busy deciding whether to stay in gear to roll on or find neutral. I think it is best to not look at the car in front or stop line (directly ) etc rather keep your eyes up, trust your peripheral vision, and you will find you can get smoother stops. Also keep your feet up as long as possible, I tend to swing my landing foot slightly in an arc to help get a smooth footing when you do finally stop as opposed to sticking it straight down hoping that my timing is perfect, the slight arc allows for a bit of play in the process. Go out into the car park and practice! apparently it will make you perfect..
just some ideas to try. good luck!

 

[Rick McC.]

Yeah, after tipping a few times I started using just the rear brake when stopping slowly. But I'm using both most of the time now but just light on the front brake. The problem comes in situations like stop & go traffic - say when a line of cars at a stop sign when you just inch up ten of 15 feet at a time and half to stop. In those situations, I usually keep my feet on the ground so I can't use the rear brake. What I should be doing is just having my left foot on the ground and use the rear brake but sometimes the R3T is a bit intimidating and wanting to tip, especially if I'm stopping on a curve. I never even thought about these things in the past but it gets stressful with the R3. After tipping over a few times, as I said, I got spooked and that makes me over-cautious and THAT causes more problems. I think what I'm doing is putting my feet (or left foot) down too soon and when the bikes still moving, there's a sub-conscious panic going on in my brain and I squeeze the front brake.

This is all embarrassing to admit. I have over a hundred thousand miles on bikes but that was decades ago. As I said, I never even thought about this stuff for second with my lighter Triumphs and my Harley (a 1950 panhead chopper that sat real low, of course). It's not from being old. I'm still a big, strong guy. It's more psychological. It has me psyched out. Also, I'm doing slow-speed maneuvers like a pansy! Really embarrassing! Those tip-overs are burned into my brain. It's such a sickening feeling when the bike leans too far and there's simply no stopping it.

On the road it's a dream, though. It's just slow-speed maneuvers and I'm having a hard time getting perfectly smooth stops.

If anyone else has gone through this, I'd love to hear any advice you may have.

Slow speed manuvers; rear brake only while adding a bit of throttle. Using this technique; it's possible to stay upright and turn, etc. at ridiculously slow speeds.

 

[dougl]

way too soft for my liking.anyone fitted stronger springs or heavier oil ?

+1 on Progressive springs, however Progressive recommends using the standard oil weight.

 

[rolandrat]

The first time it tipped was the day I picked it up! I live on a very busy state highway. My driveway is gravel and drops sharply from the street. It's bumpy where it meets the street too. But I made it in but as I was slowing to a stop, I had my feet down when almost stopped and had to use the front brake. Down it went! I've had a few drops since but not for the last 5 weeks or so until last week. (Another story.)

As for only using the rear brakes when stopping slow, the problem I have is that, say, I'm in stop and go traffic where the cars move up and stop, etc., at a stop sign. Moving up 15 or 20 feet and stopping repeatedly makes it hard for me to get my brake foot up so I've found myself with both feet down, inching up. I HATE THAT with this bike! So I only have the front brake in that situation.

That said, my stops are getting better but about every 5th or 6th stop is rough, jerking my wife forward if shes on the back, for example. Those tip-overs really psyched me out, though. Sickening feeling. Of course, I'm having a little difficulty on stops on steep inclines and I'll be doing a lot of that on my long trip to the west coast next month.

Like I said, I never even thought about this with my bikes in the past. It simply was never an issue. But those bikes were a lot lighter.

For the first couple weeks after picking up the bike, I was so spooked that I was making excuses NOT to ride and rides were stressful - particularly stops. Now I'm enjoying it but every once in a while I still get a rough stop that almost tips the bike.

This whole thing is embarrassing to admit. I never thought any bike would ever psych me out.

All that said, I would like to know more about progressive springs. I'll have to look that up.

Thanks again, guys, and I really appreciate the fact that nobody made me feel like an even bigger idiot that I feel like now! In fact, after reading the responses and knowing that others have experienced similar things, I'm actually improving faster. When I thought it was just me, it messed me up.

For me the thing is when the fork is compressed at the point of complete stop you then put your foot down.Its when the fork rebounds it throws the bike up,then you lose your footing.Also the positioning of the boards dont help when using the rear brake,it seems to take forever to get your foot to the floor when stopping,i found by raising my seating position (air Hawk)its a lot easier because my legs are not as bent, im straight to the floor instead of lifting my legs off the boards first....good post interested to hear so many having the same issue.