Installed TORS today

[cardinal93]

@dougl I was thinking about it. As much as I believe I'll never put them back in or sell my beast, I'm also a little scared to part with them. I couldn't find them on world of triumph a) to get a 50% price point or b) to know what they'd cost if I ever did need them again. Have you found them for sale new anywhere?

 

[dougl]

@dougl I was thinking about it. As much as I believe I'll never put them back in or sell my beast, I'm also a little scared to part with them. I couldn't find them on world of triumph a) to get a 50% price point or b) to know what they'd cost if I ever did need them again. Have you found them for sale new anywhere?

I understand. I haven't asked the dealer if he can get them. I've seen several throttle body assemblies on flea bay. I noticed one time that even though my secondaries table had all 100%'s, that the secondaries were closed in neutral at idle. That put a bee in my bonnet. But come to think of it, the main throttle plates (assuming they exist) are probably closed at idle anyway. So, it doesn't matter.

 

[dougl]

Here is an interesting discussion from way back.

http://www.triumphtorque.com/messag...-the-Rockets-power-limiting-in-low-gears.aspx

 

[Lostride]

The adaptation porocedure is just for idle. In tunecu,hitting reset adaptations sets the ecu to factory defaults. When I was using tuneboy, the instructions were to load a new tune, turn it off then on, hit reset adaptations, and that was it. No 12 minute tune. Never had a problem.

When you do the 12 minute tune after hitting reset adaptations, you have to wait for the fan to come on, then wait 12 minutes.

For his idle problem, I suggest loading the Triumph 20219 or 20226 tune for tors/cat bypass, hitting reset adapt, then doing the 12 minute tune.If it still doesn't idle right, there's something else wrong, like maybe the tps needs to be adjusted.

The popping on decel, ie, with the throttle closed or nearly closed, is caused by a lean condition. This is controlled in the L fuel tables, which work off manifold pressure. The decel tune has fuel added at low throttle position but it doesn't work perfectly. A lot of time has been spent trying to get the L tables right. the Power Commander overrides the fuel tables. It doesn't care which tables are controlling the fuel. It adjusts the fuel under all load conditions, including hard decel, at least if you tune it on a dyno. Presumably the AT does the same thing.

I am interested on your opinion regarding manifold pressure. When they installed the cat delete and TORS they used the old gaskets and it kinda sounds like there might be some leak there. Would a leak cause a drop in manifold pressure and increase the lean condition somewhat? It seems logical, but what do you think?
I am going to have them install new gaskets this week anyway because I just think that should be done by default when installing new slip-ons.
I have re-installed the 20226 tune but I am a bit confused about the adaption process, as mentioned on some replies, do I have to "reset adaption" (bike running) before a 12 minute adaption cycle (after op temp reached)? I thought that simply turning ignition off, count to 10 (?) and the system will "reboot" the new map and then the 12 minute cycle will fill in environmental parameters such as altitude etc etc.. for the idle portion and other throttle conditions adapt under load over time?
Thanks

 

[Lostride]

As @dougl explained no real difference in ridability. I've had my butterflies physically removed for over 2 years and no issues? They're sitting in a box, but I can't imagine them ever needing to go back in the bike. I was running 20050 for a couple years too, but with a few tweaks for the decel popping, but it never really went away completely. I have no issues with idling (it's around 850 hot or cold) and never had any stalling issues. I'm now running 20227 from @HansO and the decel popping is much decreased. I'll have to go double check, but I'm pretty sure my O2 sensor is checked on.
From my understanding of you choose to hit reset adaptation you should run a 12 min idle. Just for changing the two idle numbers, I don't think you'd have to do that. For any other major changes, including the O2 sensor, I would. But that's just because I'm not the smartest guy around on the subject and its costs me nothing but 12 mins to be on the safe side.

I would be interested in the 20227 tune just to have it available as something to try. I have downloaded the entire Triumph tune library but it is not on hand (I am at work) at the moment so I can't check if I already have it (the 20227 tune). Is it a custom tune from @HansO and perhaps not in the library?

 

[dougl]

I am interested on your opinion regarding manifold pressure. When they installed the cat delete and TORS they used the old gaskets and it kinda sounds like there might be some leak there. Would a leak cause a drop in manifold pressure and increase the lean condition somewhat? It seems logical, but what do you think?
I am going to have them install new gaskets this week anyway because I just think that should be done by default when installing new slip-ons.
I have re-installed the 20226 tune but I am a bit confused about the adaption process, as mentioned on some replies, do I have to "reset adaption" (bike running) before a 12 minute adaption cycle (after op temp reached)? I thought that simply turning ignition off, count to 10 (?) and the system will "reboot" the new map and then the 12 minute cycle will fill in environmental parameters such as altitude etc etc.. for the idle portion and other throttle conditions adapt under load over time?
Thanks

When the map is finished loading, it makes the noise from the instruments. Then turn the key off for a few seconds. then turn it back on but don't start it. Hit reset adaptations and wait about 20 seconds. This restores the adaptations to factory settings. Then start the engine, don't touch the throttle, wait until the fan comes on, then wait for 12+ minutes. This lets the ecu adapt to local condition at idle. Like I said, when I was using Tuneboy for years, I stopped after hitting reset adapt with the engine off. No 12 minute tune. The ecu eventually adapts. Adding the 12 min tune can't hurt.

I believe manifold pressure is measured behind the primary butterflies. When fully open, the pressure is ambient, about 1 atmosphere. With the throttle closed the pressure is much lower. A freer flowing exhaust, as in caused by a leak, shouldn't affect the manifold pressure but if the flow is significantly increased, it could make it it run lean.Unlikely the leak would be that bad without you being able to feel exhaust coming out.

 

[dougl]

I would be interested in the 20227 tune just to have it available as something to try. I have downloaded the entire Triumph tune library but it is not on hand (I am at work) at the moment so I can't check if I already have it (the 20227 tune). Is it a custom tune from @HansO and perhaps not in the library?

The 20227 tune is for the stock mufflers with a catalytjc converter without catalyst in it. Don't see why you would want to use that. It's a stock tune. Hanso might have altered it with some pc trims - don't know. Have you looked in the tuneecu obsolete tunes? It might be there. If you Pm me with your email, I can send it and whatever other tunes I have from that series, where the base tune is 20222.

PS: I just noticed that the 20222 series including 20227 is in the current list of TuneECU tunes (but not the Hanso mod).

 

[cardinal93]

@Lostride the 227 tune I use is a modified one specifically from HansO. I can send it to you and you can take a look if you like. Just need an email address.
As for the gaskets, like Doug said, I don't think it's affecting your manifold pressure. I've reused them a few times, but if you're hearing the leak I would definitely replace. The lean issue you run into with the gasket leak could be the cause of some increased decel popping, which it sounds like you're experiencing.

 

[cr0ft]

From what I gather, resetting adaptations and doing the "12-minute-tune" is just good practice to give the ECU something to start from and go from there. The ECU is learning all the time regardless and is constantly adapting to wear and tear etc to keep the bike running smoothly. It's not a panacea, though, if the tune doesn't fit.

 

[Lostride]

From what I gather, resetting adaptations and doing the "12-minute-tune" is just good practice to give the ECU something to start from and go from there. The ECU is learning all the time regardless and is constantly adapting to wear and tear etc to keep the bike running smoothly. It's not a panacea, though, if the tune doesn't fit.

I was going over the user manual for TuneECU and it says this:

To start a fast adaption:

Connect the (*Triumph) diagnostic tool *the fast adaption method is feasible with TuneECU
This will force a fast adaption routine in about 5 seconds. For this to happen the engine must be running, it must be at normal operating temperature and in closed loop mode.
Under any other conditions (such as engine not running) fast adaption will not occur and may cause default values to loaded which may then require a normal 12 minute adaption routine.

Also:

Either adaption method (Fast or 12 Minute) only adapt the idle area (of the tune map). All other areas ( covers cruise sites from 30 - 90 mph [50 - 145 km/h] ) can only adapt under load. The motorcycle will adapt over time during normal use.