How To: Add Pressure Input for PC-V

OK here's a question that shouldn't make heads ache.

If on my POD300 I add or subtract fuel with the option on the screen AND i have the autotune running, does the AT override my fuel trims and still target the AFR its sensing?

Never been sure about this, I think (and hope) the fuel trim adjustment should overide the AFR setting, otherwise would need to turn the AT to OFF for this.
 
OK here's a question that shouldn't make heads ache. If on my POD300 I add or subtract fuel with the option on the screen AND i have the autotune running, does the AT override my fuel trims and still target the AFR its sensing? Never been sure about this, I think (and hope) the fuel trim adjustment should overide the AFR setting, otherwise would need to turn the AT to OFF for this.
I do not know. But frankly it takes me a good 30 minutes or so to go through the logs fully to UNDERSTAND. So It'll get adjusted via the PC anyway.

The PCV-A/T-POD is basically a small network of interdependent devices. My conviction is that are are capable of far more than we (most of us) know. I know Rob is using data in his logging that is way beyond my aims.

Probably the fist thing we should ALL do is go for a low stress ride with the AFR targets set to ZERO - and just log the AFR (though documentation suggests recording Lambda).
Then find a safe and proven set of AFR Targets - i.e @Claviger . Ride and log. And then THINK. COMPARE. Decide and set a target. Repeat until you're happy - for some of us (ahem) that is going to be a while.

What is "SAFE"? - stoichiometric ratio is 14 point something. I use the looseness deliberately as the EXACT fuel chemistry defines this - and most of us do not have access to it.

I would suggest that 14.1 or 14.2 is a safe low load target (Oh mr @Speedy ) - I doubt below 13 brings anything to those of us without serious engine mods. The ECU WILL do transitional enrichment (I see 10 every so often - I know because I have the POD flash me in green when it happens) - But the PCV will not be able to control those.

What the PCV-A/T does is generate a prediction table based on historical data. It does not and CANNOT adjust an injector pulse mid cycle. Nor can anything - especially consumer grade. I do not know what the cyclic instruction rate of the C3 network (PCV AT POD) is - But 10Hz would be my guess. A Cray it most certainly is not. It says - "in these conditions - this vehicle and this rider - the likelyhood that base is too rich/lean is "X"%. - But measures and says "yea!" or "oops" - and if oops makes a little change for the next time - though i seriously doubt it's teh next injector pulse.

**** - my head does ache now. But it did before anyway.
 
I do not know. But frankly it takes me a good 30 minutes or so to go through the logs fully to UNDERSTAND. So It'll get adjusted via the PC anyway.

The PCV-A/T-POD is basically a small network of interdependent devices. My conviction is that are are capable of far more than we (most of us) know. I know Rob is using data in his logging that is way beyond my aims.

Probably the fist thing we should ALL do is go for a low stress ride with the AFR targets set to ZERO - and just log the AFR (though documentation suggests recording Lambda).
Then find a safe and proven set of AFR Targets - i.e @Claviger . Ride and log. And then THINK. COMPARE. Decide and set a target. Repeat until you're happy - for some of us (ahem) that is going to be a while.

What is "SAFE"? - stoichiometric ratio is 14 point something. I use the looseness deliberately as the EXACT fuel chemistry defines this - and most of us do not have access to it.

I would suggest that 14.1 or 14.2 is a safe low load target (Oh mr @Speedy ) - I doubt below 13 brings anything to those of us without serious engine mods. The ECU WILL do transitional enrichment (I see 10 every so often - I know because I have the POD flash me in green when it happens) - But the PCV will not be able to control those.

What the PCV-A/T does is generate a prediction table based on historical data. It does not and CANNOT adjust an injector pulse mid cycle. Nor can anything - especially consumer grade. I do not know what the cyclic instruction rate of the C3 network (PCV AT POD) is - But 10Hz would be my guess. A Cray it most certainly is not. It says - "in these conditions - this vehicle and this rider - the likelyhood that base is too rich/lean is "X"%. - But measures and says "yea!" or "oops" - and if oops makes a little change for the next time - though i seriously doubt it's teh next injector pulse.

**** - my head does ache now. But it did before anyway.

First: Sleeves, don't use the "in field adjustments" they function unpredictably. I've had cases where adding a bit of fuel via manual adjustment worked, but, it confused the AT so while it was trying to adjust, it was all off. Just leave them at 0.

The AT needs 5 samples in a given cell in the table to make and adjustment according to Dynojet. I would take a stab at their algorithm being something like: Dismiss highest and lowest value (or weight them lower), average middle three, add adjustment to table.

Regarding AFRs on a stock piston/cam bike:

Low RPM just off idle response: Shoot for 13 or 12.8
Cruising steady state on flat ground: Shoot for 14.5 (if you're after economy, otherwise 13.5 for the sake of throttle response)
Heavy acceleration but not full throttle: 13.2
Full throttle 12.8 or 13

There are two points where power will start to fall off after adjusting ignition timing to be best for a given AFR. They're Rich Best Torque (RBT) and Lean Best Torque (LBT), anything richer than RBT or LBT will be cost you power.

When tuning for RBT it'll be richer than you think on most motors, something in the low 12s even on an NA motor. LBT will usually be a bit leaner than you'd think, something usually in the mid-high 13s on an NA motor. The key is, ignition timing. You've got to adjust it to get the best from the given mixture.

Arbitrary Numbers:
Say RBT is 12:1 with 32 degrees and makes 160whp. Your getting everything there is out of the motor this way, fuel mileage be ****ed!
The same motor at 13.5:1 with say, 36 degrees might make 157whp, but get a good bit better mileage for the small exchange of 3 whp.

So you see, everything between 12 and 13.5 on this hypothetical motor will make good power, assuming, ignition timing is optimized for it.

This is one of the ways race teams adjust their tunes for a given track, do they need the mileage or can they afford to run it fat and make more power?

This is why having time and a dyno is an invaluable tool for tuning. You can adjust to RBT and LBT and see what the power difference is, on some motors is a big difference, others is negligible. The range, is why even when you've dialed your bike in at say 13:1 perfectly, you give it to a good tuner, and they'll pull more power out of it. By adjusting fueling they'll end up walking it in to the perfect fueling for the ignition map it's using, it might be nearer RBT or LBT, but, you'll never know until you find a tuner who will work directly in TuneECU and do all this work.

AAAAAAAAAAAnd this is why guys like Neville and Nels, are so rare, they understand, comprehend, and apply their (vast) tuning knowledge to hone in on RBT or LBT, or some point in between they chose and optimize it all to align and work together.
 
You should of bought a new 'ice bucket' rather than 'brain bucket';):D
Nope - this is simply what happens when a true blood pirate does maths WITHOUT rum. Younger bloods need wenches and some, so they say, a good ditty.

I think these days I am past wenching: at least they seem so to conclude. Not sure if the Jethro Tull "50 for 50" compilation counts as dittying.

It is most certainly a weighted average, and the PCV software WILL show you this if you ask it nicely.
I have just had a run out to see a gunsmith mate in Toledo (the real one - in Spain). Sat at <ahem> constant speeds. It's pretty flat but highish altitude wise.
I was not logging but glanced once or twice at the POD. Tomorrow I will do similar runs and log. After investigating trims etc.

The "Fuel consumption vs Throttle response" argument is why I feel that the MAP/GEAR functionality of the PCV is something NOT to be ignored.
Esp not at €1,50 a litre today - I nearly dropped the R3 at the pumps :eek: - "do whaaaaaaaat!!" . It's climbed to 8.5L/100kms this tank.

I had 1st and 5th far more restricted before the MAP tuning adventure started. I think by EOD tomorrow I should have a "vision" in my head.
Something akin to SIBBT (Something In Between Best Torque) - LBTish 1st and 5th - RBTish 2nd, 3rd. 4th.
I would have run 4th leaner after the UK run in May. But it is now responding nicely at low TPS so for now ---------

Shame I have to work next week - this is all so much more fun. And with more time - I could use more Rum.
 
Shame I have to work next week - this is all so much more fun. And with more time - I could use more Rum.

Kraken on then! ;):p:eek::D

upload_2018-7-5_13-26-18.jpeg
 
Heads up guys.

Could anybody who has done this please post their two Barometric values and voltages.

In my latest run of data - I have some NEGATIVE pressure values. Less than 0 psi whilst mathematically possible is unlikely.

I have plotted out those posted by Rob and those I have collected. Not a straight line and I am sure it HAS TO BE A FIXED RELATIONSHIP.
The ECU only knows the VOLTS and lets us know what that is in Pressure via TuneECU.

And the tickover hpa/volts relationship is variable to the extent it can make a big difference. to the 0psi voltage.

I want to call in @DEcosse here. Maybe he has some sensor data. He's a clever fellow.
From what I read from OBD and Triumph error codes we have an industry standard MAP sensor. Which SHOULD have a 0.5 to 5V range

Quite how many hPA/psi 5V equates to I have no idea - but there is a strong chance that 0.5V equates to 0hpa/psi

So by dint of this either Triumph hand match the MAP sensor to the ECU or (far more likely) we have an interpreted value for an average sensor.
The only way I can think of to really KNOW is fit a different vacuum gauge to the other set of manifold takeoffs and compare.

Sorry - I am dithering.
 
Back
Top