DEcosse
If it's no Scottish it's CRAP!
warp9.9, please check your messages
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cr0ft
Living Legend
As for the headlight relays - paying a few bucks to Eastern Beaver for a ready-made kit is also an option, especially since there are actual Triumph specific setups to be had. 
I'm not helpless around either cables or a soldering iron but may well pay for a plug and play type install experience over doing it myself. Though ideally we R3T pilots should have a kit with three relays, one to use for the driving lights that have their own control on the handlebars.
I'm not helpless around either cables or a soldering iron but may well pay for a plug and play type install experience over doing it myself. Though ideally we R3T pilots should have a kit with three relays, one to use for the driving lights that have their own control on the handlebars.
HansO
Not Taking Life Too Seriously
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2010
- Messages
- 13,447
- Location
- Batemans Bay, NSW, Aus
- Ride
- 08 Rocket III R.I.P now TEX Triumph Explorer
We are All well aware of the Eastern Beaver Kits, If you read All the threads regarding the Ignition switch problems, you would see myself and others recommending them (EB kits) as an cure.As for the headlight relays - paying a few bucks to Eastern Beaver for a ready-made kit is also an option, especially since there are actual Triumph specific setups to be had.
This Tread is for the guys who wanted and asked about making one themselves as in some place such as here in Australia the EB kits work out fairly pricey not mention the relays if one should go are difficult to source here in rural areas, but I am not offend by your post I am just pointing out that we are all aware they exist
Cheers
Hans
DEcosse
If it's no Scottish it's CRAP!
Indeed, and you did a fine job in that regard HansO, with readily available materials.HansO said:
I would also agree that, while those Panasonic relays are indeed compact, they are VERY hard to source, even here in the US, other than from EB. I used to use these relays myself in various project kits, but switched to Micro form relays because of their more prevalent availability. Nor does EB have diode suppressed versions available of that form factor, nor is there a DPST (not for this but for other projects).
And re the EB kit - honestly, there's nothing really 'Rocket' specific about it at all, other than simply being a twin headlight kit (and maybe the wire lengths).
For me, it's just made more complex by having to get inside the headlight shells and feed those new harnesses while losing the park light function (not that I care about those personally but some might)
Now- in real World testing, there is actually negligible voltage drop from the 4-way connector to the lamps sockets. The wire length is just too short to have appreciable voltage drop. The primary function of bypassing the key-switch and also increasing the voltage at the lamps for performance improvement, is already achieved by connecting at the 4-way connectors. On my Speed Triple (same twin headlamps) I have next to zero voltage drop from the battery to the actual H4 lamp sockets, while retaining the original headlamp harnesses, connecting the relay powered supply at the 4-ways.
So connecting externally at the 4-way connectors, either by solder-splicing (liken HansO) or by new connector as I suggested in my alternative scheme, is not only adequate, it is preferable IMO.
DEcosse
If it's no Scottish it's CRAP!
Maybe someone could do a test to check the contribution of the negative component* on the Rocket:
Headlights must be connected and ON for this test;
(you don't get a voltage drop unless the circuit is actually flowing current - when I explained this test on another forum, some members thought they had perfect system with no loss because they pulled connector off the lamp to measure the voltage!)
Measure voltage between the battery negative terminal and the terminal with the black wire at either/each of the 4-way sockets. On the Rocket this voltage would most likely be the same at both sockets.
Depending on that voltage drop, will determine whether or not a new large gauge negative wire needs to be run from battery.
On my S3, this was virtually a whole volt (0.995V) - with this kind of magnitude you can pick up a whole lot more lumens by eliminating that.
The difference between 13.0V and 14.0V at the lamp socket on an H4 bulb, goes from 1054 to 1356 Lumens!!!! That's almost 30%!
Even 0.5V loss - difference of 13.5V to 14.0V - is 1198 to 1356.
The contrary is, if it's negligible, you can simplify the upgrade further by just doing the Positive feeds (via the relays)
It may not be quite so bad on the Rocket, but let's get a measurement and see.
If it's less than 0.5V, some may be deem it not necessary, unless you want to squeeze every last lumen your voltage supply will give you!
If 0.5V or greater, there is a pretty good gain right there
* just backing up a bit to explain: There are three voltage drops in the round trip from the battery to the lamp socket and back;
Battery + to Lamp +;
Lamp + to Lamp -;
Lamp - to Battery -.
These three components additively equal the voltage at the battery.
The object is to maximize the voltage between Lamp + & Lamp -.
Higher Voltage means brighter, whiter light output.
For example, let's consider a 9006 low beam bulb rated 1000 lumens at 12.8 Volts and plug in different voltages:
10.5V : 510 lumens
11.0V : 597 lumens
11.5V : 695 lumens
12.0V : 803 lumens
12.5V : 923 lumens
12.8V : 1000 lumens ←Rated output voltage
13.0V : 1054 lumens
13.5V : 1198 lumens
14.0V : 1356 lumens ←Rated life voltage
14.5V : 1528 lumens
In simple terms - more volts make more lumens!
The relays and upgraded wire gauge virtually eliminate the contribution of the first component, Battery + to Lamp + and everyone pretty much readily understands that part.
(If you currently have stock set-up, you can measure from Battery + to Lamp + to see what your gain there will be, from upgrading wire gauge and relays on the positive)
But the return leg, from Lamp - to Battery - is almost as important and there may be some gain just from improving the 'ground' wire to the lamp sockets.
Many just assume 'ground is ground' but high current through small gauge wire can create a significant voltage drop and therefor the lamp -ve is not really at battery negative potential and so reduces the actual voltage across the filament.
Recognize you can very simply eliminate this component loss/ realize this gain, even without adding the relays, just by running new ground wire!
Headlights must be connected and ON for this test;
(you don't get a voltage drop unless the circuit is actually flowing current - when I explained this test on another forum, some members thought they had perfect system with no loss because they pulled connector off the lamp to measure the voltage!)
Measure voltage between the battery negative terminal and the terminal with the black wire at either/each of the 4-way sockets. On the Rocket this voltage would most likely be the same at both sockets.
Depending on that voltage drop, will determine whether or not a new large gauge negative wire needs to be run from battery.
On my S3, this was virtually a whole volt (0.995V) - with this kind of magnitude you can pick up a whole lot more lumens by eliminating that.
The difference between 13.0V and 14.0V at the lamp socket on an H4 bulb, goes from 1054 to 1356 Lumens!!!! That's almost 30%!
Even 0.5V loss - difference of 13.5V to 14.0V - is 1198 to 1356.
The contrary is, if it's negligible, you can simplify the upgrade further by just doing the Positive feeds (via the relays)
It may not be quite so bad on the Rocket, but let's get a measurement and see.
If it's less than 0.5V, some may be deem it not necessary, unless you want to squeeze every last lumen your voltage supply will give you!
If 0.5V or greater, there is a pretty good gain right there
* just backing up a bit to explain: There are three voltage drops in the round trip from the battery to the lamp socket and back;
Battery + to Lamp +;
Lamp + to Lamp -;
Lamp - to Battery -.
These three components additively equal the voltage at the battery.
The object is to maximize the voltage between Lamp + & Lamp -.
Higher Voltage means brighter, whiter light output.
For example, let's consider a 9006 low beam bulb rated 1000 lumens at 12.8 Volts and plug in different voltages:
10.5V : 510 lumens
11.0V : 597 lumens
11.5V : 695 lumens
12.0V : 803 lumens
12.5V : 923 lumens
12.8V : 1000 lumens ←Rated output voltage
13.0V : 1054 lumens
13.5V : 1198 lumens
14.0V : 1356 lumens ←Rated life voltage
14.5V : 1528 lumens
In simple terms - more volts make more lumens!
The relays and upgraded wire gauge virtually eliminate the contribution of the first component, Battery + to Lamp + and everyone pretty much readily understands that part.
(If you currently have stock set-up, you can measure from Battery + to Lamp + to see what your gain there will be, from upgrading wire gauge and relays on the positive)
But the return leg, from Lamp - to Battery - is almost as important and there may be some gain just from improving the 'ground' wire to the lamp sockets.
Many just assume 'ground is ground' but high current through small gauge wire can create a significant voltage drop and therefor the lamp -ve is not really at battery negative potential and so reduces the actual voltage across the filament.
Recognize you can very simply eliminate this component loss/ realize this gain, even without adding the relays, just by running new ground wire!
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DEcosse
If it's no Scottish it's CRAP!
Can someone maybe volunteer to do this?
It's simple and should only take a few minutes ............
warp9.9
Pocałuj mnie w dupę
I would love to but may Rocket has been sitting torn apart and I am laying around with a cast on my leg from my off on the Sprint.
DEcosse
If it's no Scottish it's CRAP!
Read about that on the T'Rat forum - hope the healing of all three of you (you, Sprint & Rocket) goes well and ALL are back together in one-piece soon
Gregger
Living Legend
I just took some readings from the left hand headlight plug, back to the battery and was shocked at the voltage drop. My bike was registering 14.2 volts while idling and here is what I got for high beam, low beam and ground;
High beam - 1.560 drop
Low beam - 1.950 drop
Ground - .790 drop
On the low beam that's a combined loss of 2.74 volts and the high beam 2.35 volts . That's gonna kill a few lumens! I didn't test at the 4 terminal micro connectors yet. Will do that later when I upgrade.
I guess the improvements made to the newer Roadsters, where Triumph didn't run the feeds through the ignition switch, hasn't helped light output. The ignition switch may live longer but illumination may be worse. Where do they run the leads now? High/low beam switch???? (I don't have a manual).
I have all the parts to begin my upgrade. With 8000 kms on my new 12 Roadster, don't really care about any warranty issues this might cause. I want more light on the road.
Thanks to HansO and DEcosse for this post.
DEcosse
If it's no Scottish it's CRAP!
Thanks Gregger - that is excellent data. I wasn't sure what the negative would yield on the Rocket. But that drop is certainly significant enough to make the negative upgrade worth while along with the positive feeds via relays
Note (purely constructive) that Hanso's mod did not incorporate the ground upgrade to the headlight sockets.
