Hey I have been round long enough to see it all. The reality is so many products are bastardised by accountants. And the market pepetuates that by demanding low prices, the results of that mindset is about what the market is receiving. I make no apologies for my demeanour and comments, I'm only interested in products that actually work properly. Also I make no apology for having taken the trouble to write at length from my experience, my post today was informative and apolitical.
But certainly your post has confirmed my views re forums, well shared.
You will remember Ralph Nader, he exposed a lot of dodgy product. Fast forward to todays world and everything is so PC, very few people are afraid to speak out. Aside from the likes of your President, a breath of fresh air.
 
You will remember Ralph Nader, he exposed a lot of dodgy product. Fast forward to todays world and everything is so PC, very few people are afraid to speak out.
The issue with that being, there is a lot of opinion rather than fact. Such is the world we oldies have built. I pity the youth today - they have no need to think.

Forcing something down my throat will make me very suspicious. I start to smell male cow poo - even if it is not there. And if I smell it I will smell it out. And can be (when not medicated) vociferous. I don't smell it here - BUT I do see the forcing thing. As an ex professional truth flavourer - forcing folk to think for themselves is better than the inquisition.

Anybody who improves my understanding of ANYTHING based on explained experience will always have my consideration. So - I implore you - teach me. Don't alienate me by suggesting forums are populated by one segment of the world. Even trolls have their place. They police our hubris.
 
Gentlemen, lets comport ourselves as such. KSS (Robert) does know his stuff. I can say that because I know a little too. His comments about rear dampers, their design, construction and tuning is dead on. He also understood my comments about viscosity and bleed orifice dynamics so I know he isn't blowing smoke or just read it about in a book. And I can second his opinion concerning some damper tuning methods employed by manufacturers and rebuilders. I once opened a pair of new midget sprint car dual tube shocks with identical external compression and dampening codes only to find two different spring sets inside. How did I know: they are color coded from the spring manufacturers. Both shocks had been on a dyno when built and came with print outs of their performance. One must have been taken back part because the method used to fine tune low speed dampening was a hammer. It had been used to bend the low speed spring and needle seat by bending the piston disc. Not a little bit, a lot. I can guarantee that although the pair may have had similar low speed feel by hand, they would function very differently. The dyno sheets inside the boxes where pure bull shyte! Needless to say, I was not impressed.

It is way too easy to hide poor design, construction and performance in a product that is generally not well understood or ever taken apart by the end user. Buying from a source that you have access to for follow up adjustment or spring changes is simple prudence. Most consumers who want the best value for the money they are willing to spend would be will served doing thusly. Any manufacturer or dealer who says one spring rate or one dampening profile works for everybody is blowing smoke.

For those willing to experiment on their own I tip my hat. Curiosity and discovery are to be applauded. But be aware that it can be expensive and dangerous so proceed slowly. After you have about three sets of shocks, valuable only for some salvage parts, laying under the bench will you begin to appreciate the nuances involved in making a hydraulic damper perform as anticipated.

As to Robert's tone; Who amongst hasn't expressed an opinion? This is a forum after all, for all voices. Some more educated, or experienced, or passionate, or irreverent, or direct, or whatever someone else may think is too much. So Robert, teach us more. Join the fray, not as an owner of a business, but as a technician or engineer who knows his craft and can put more than two sentences together in a coherent manner. You will be welcomed.
 
The issue with that being, there is a lot of opinion rather than fact. Such is the world we oldies have built. I pity the youth today - they have no need to think.

Forcing something down my throat will make me very suspicious. I start to smell male cow poo - even if it is not there. And if I smell it I will smell it out. And can be (when not medicated) vociferous. I don't smell it here - BUT I do see the forcing thing. As an ex professional truth flavourer - forcing folk to think for themselves is better than the inquisition.

Anybody who improves my understanding of ANYTHING based on explained experience will always have my consideration. So - I implore you - teach me. Don't alienate me by suggesting forums are populated by one segment of the world. Even trolls have their place. They police our hubris.

Guess you related it better than I, Amigo.
I HATE CENSORSHIP!!!
THIS IS WHY OUR YOUNG ARE SO DARN PC!
I HATE IT MORE WHEN NO PROFANITY WAS EVEN USED!!!
I HATE IT WORSE WHEN NO NOTICE, REASON OR ANY CONTACT IS GIVEN!!!
PLEASE DO NOT CHANGE OR REDACT MY POSTS - DELETE THEM FULLY IF YOU MUST EXERCISE YOUR POWER MUSCLES!!!
 
I was always pigheaded when i was young and quite often teaching me something was accompanied with a clip around the ear or swift toe in the rear so i know that being direct with ones manner of explaining something usually is developed from trying to teach pigheaded learners ...like me.
Ok, most of us dont like the direct method because its a bit abrasive....in the end, it dosnt matter as long as its true facts we are being told.
 
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