Darkside Review ???

[CanberraR3]

One thing I haven't seen discussed (so forgive me if it's been done to death prefiously - too many threads/posts on the topic to go through them all) is the difference in rolling circumference between MT and CT when the bike is leaning/cornering.

Assuming that the CTs keep their shape through a corner, and most/all of the pics on here seem the suggest they mostly do, then the effective diametre of the leaning tire at the contact point could be anything up to 4 or 5 inches more on a CT depending on the width of the tire, adding up to 12-15 inches more than an MT with each rotation while the bike is leaning. Only when upright would the rolling circumference be the same as the MT.

Perhaps the taller gearing due to the larger contact circumferance (of a leaning CT when compared to a leaning MT) is what gives the impression of improved handling "in the twisties" as you can probably apply more of the right hand as you exit without risking the back breaking away.

Don't shoot me; just a thought.

 

[warp9.9]

One thing I haven't seen discussed (so forgive me if it's been done to death prefiously - too many threads/posts on the topic to go through them all) is the difference in rolling circumference between MT and CT when the bike is leaning/cornering.

Assuming that the CTs keep their shape through a corner, and most/all of the pics on here seem the suggest they mostly do, then the effective diametre of the leaning tire at the contact point could be anything up to 4 or 5 inches more on a CT depending on the width of the tire, adding up to 12-15 inches more than an MT with each rotation while the bike is leaning. Only when upright would the rolling circumference be the same as the MT.

Perhaps the taller gearing due to the larger contact circumferance (of a leaning CT when compared to a leaning MT) is what gives the impression of improved handling "in the twisties" as you can probably apply more of the right hand as you exit without risking the back breaking away.

Don't shoot me; just a thought.

If you ever road behind one you would see that they do not keep there shape as they are under inflated. Plus the fact that they end up leaning at a compound angle do to not having a radius in line with the center of the bike. this is why they scrape the roads so much in curves. wearing out $$ worth of pegs and floor boards. Yet they save money on rear tire wear. Oh and add wear to the front like Trikes.
You will see it for yourself when you get the oportunity to follw one especially in some good twisties like the dragon tail. I followed IDK and could plainly see it. Also the tire circumferance can change depending on what brand they buy which a lot of them try to get close to the right circumferance
So I do not see the savings in running them. I seriously think that if you keep using the full radius of a MC tire you will never develop a slippage but ride her more upright all the time and add **** like armorall or anyother tire shine ****, wax and other road asphalt oils engine droppings and what not and then when you lean her over she is as slick as a brand new mounted one. And dealers who mount new tires remind you of this when you take her out.
If car tires were that good why don't track racers use them? They would spend 4k just to gain 10 HP. and making time in a curve ends up helping the overall track time yet they don't use them.

Anyway thats a good question so don't be afraid to ask as you have to decide what tire you want to ride on.

 

[CanberraR3]

If you ever road behind one you would see that they do not keep there shape as they are under inflated. ]


Really!?

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[warp9.9]

yep its hard to believe unless it is inflated to full pressure it will sit down some. You can't see it well in this picture and I suspect he might have a little higher pressure then some. But like I said follow one and then call it like you see it dude. I am not trying to talk you out of a car tire you ride on what you want.

I would like to see one at the races and one win something but other then my brother Joker I know of no one who has. especailly giving up the hp that they do. I think this guy in the picture might be from chicago and I hope to run into him some day as there are not many Rockets where I am.

All I ask is you follow one and then make up your mind don't let anyone tell you what it is and believe it not even me. Oh and if you want a 245 Cooper pay the shipping and I will send you the one I tried.
here is a shot of mine


I tried it and I made up my mind without anyone convincing me so if you really want to know lay out the bucks and try.

I think they work great on slow bikes but add some power and well like I said make up your mind don't let me influence your decision nor let the years of tire engineering sway you either. The fact that no racer on round tracks use them or any other reason. Just try it if you like it then that is the name of the game.

Triumph had a recall on the R3T tires world wide.
I would think the new Roadster would not have a Metzler on it if it were bad. They would have recalled it also.


no wet box
no tire spin
and yes no car tire
Oh and the red helmet in the other lane is a ZX-14 getting a lesson from a bagger!!!

 

[CanberraR3]

I think you're misunderstanding me. I'm very much in the "yet to be convinced" camp. Not negative but still waiting ......

If the tires do sit down in corners enough to counter the additional radius (distance between the axel and the road) as you say then I can't see how that's safe, it would result in a substantial increase in rolling resitsance, the bike wouldn't track true and there'd be a significant loss of power, even more than with the tire running upright. However, in the photo it's plain to see that the tire leaning over has not distorted anything like that much and has "hinged" the bike up, effectively altering the final drive, meaning the bike is travelling about a foot further per revolution of the rear wheel (while it's leaning) than it would with an MT fitted.

Maybe it's no more noticeable than the reduced radius effect you get with an MT when you lean, but it just seems that it's more likely that it would have a noticeable effect on handling.

 

[rawlo]

my darside update

Hi guys
I just want to let you all know that I have just clocked up 11000km on a Goodyear f1 225/50 and it was a little dawnting at first but like some other posters have suggested I started with low tyre pressures and slowly adjusted to suit me 28 psi.
It handled like **** for the first 1-2000 km but I told everyone I rode with it was great
(not wanting to be proved wrong) from then on it improved in leaps and bounds.
With the handling sorted out I began to start pushing it harder and harder into corners with outstanding results.
At 10000k I was up for a new front tyre (previous 2 were Metz) I chose a Avon.
Well after runnig the new Avon in approx 300 km it was time to have a play,to my suprise the improvement in handling was and is out of sight
The goodyear f1 is approx 1/3 worn and has rounded edges no wall scuff and even tread wear.
This combination works for me.

08 rocket KN tripple /sec removed custom 3-2 cat eliminated power commander.
Rawlo

 

[tdragger]

You guys keep saying that you want to see a c/t win at the races.

Don't you get it? Are you listening?

That's not a proper application of the darkside so that argument is moot.

You can theorize and prophesize all you want about the pros and cons, but when you see Captain after Captain going down and getting hurt due to the Metzler lacking the proper traction to prevent a rear wheel lockup and slide out, it's pretty clear that the Metzler is a safety hazard.

Maybe some of you more highly skilled street racers can flog your 800 lb cruiser around and properly apply the rear brake 100% of the time, the rest of us may not.

 

[HansO]

You guys keep saying that you want to see a c/t win at the races.

Don't you get it? Are you listening?

That's not a proper application of the darkside so that argument is moot.

You can theorize and prophesize all you want about the pros and cons, but when you see Captain after Captain going down and getting hurt due to the Metzler lacking the proper traction to prevent a rear wheel lockup and slide out, it's pretty clear that the Metzler is a safety hazard.

Maybe some of you more highly skilled street racers can flog your 800 lb cruiser around and properly apply the rear brake 100% of the time, the rest of us may not.

Tdrager you are wasting your time and energy some people read to much tech and don't get enought real experence I have seen this argument before and you won't get it through concrete thick skulls the racing argument is as you said an appilcation you also wont see racers using Street tyres at the same lean angles as Slicks in some Lower Classes of racing they use street tryes to reduce the risk for less experienced as to experienced riders
Warp please get real while I have a high respect for your techincal tunning knowledge, but your opinions seem a bit second hand maybe you have been influenced by that other mate of yours Art who also is very good techincal, something you might notice if you want to refer to racing is that different riders use different settings and componds on the same bikes, that doesn't make one better than the other it just illistrates that some load the front up more than others, As for the corner clearance the deformation of the darkside is relative to the tire pressure therefore if the correct pressure (to suit your riding style) is in the tyre preventing it from going on to the sidewall so do maintain a slightly higher profile and increase the clearance before you Grind away your pegs I have been able to use a wider section of the front tyre yes I can get over further (more wear around the sides of the front a mate following on a Honda CBXX 1100 Blackbird commented that he was grinding at the same time and could not believe the angles I was getting) while running a darkeside and have gotten 1000km's more out of this last metz which sort diffuses your therory that it speeds up the front tyre wear. I have just yesterday replaced Metz with a Shinko 757 (new release ) 150/80/17 RADIAL, Shinko used to be known as Yokoama and have good rep. something you might not be aware of is tat the metz is a cross ply the only other Radial is the Cobra which i will try if I am not satisfied with the Shinko. I think the biggest problem is that triumph used crossply tyres.
as for the braking issue I my self have exprenced an unexpected lock up with the Metzler that almost caused a highside and in the dry, it skewed sideways and lifted me out of the saddle but luckily I was able to catch it, upon pulling up and inspecting the surface of the road I found nothing wrong with the surface and a skid mark no more than an inch wide and yes I am an exprenced rider that honed my braking skills on dirt bikes many years ago an advocated balanced braking to the countless numbers of learners I have introduced to riding over the years,. I think you will notice the bike in the crashed bike was a Touring and not the Roadster which now have ABS mmm!!! could it be cause so many Stds and Clasics reported unexpected lock ups, don't be suprised if after few more tourings go down they don't put ABS on them to I wonder why Triumph saw fit to put the ABS on the model with the wider tyre first mmmm!!!
Now can please get back on topic and give honest reviews for those seeking feedback!!

 

[warp9.9]

Tdrager you are wasting your time and energy some people read to much tech and don't get enought real experence I have seen this argument before and you won't get it through concrete thick skulls the racing argument is as you said an appilcation you also wont see racers using Street tyres at the same lean angles as Slicks in some Lower Classes of racing they use street tryes to reduce the risk for less experienced as to experienced riders
Warp please get real while I have a high respect for your techincal tunning knowledge, but your opinions seem a bit second hand maybe you have been influenced by that other mate of yours Art who also is very good techincal, something you might notice if you want to refer to racing is that different riders use different settings and componds on the same bikes, that doesn't make one better than the other it just illistrates that some load the front up more than others, As for the corner clearance the deformation of the darkside is relative to the tire pressure therefore if the correct pressure (to suit your riding style) is in the tyre preventing it from going on to the sidewall so do maintain a slightly higher profile and increase the clearance before you Grind away your pegs I have been able to use a wider section of the front tyre yes I can get over further (more wear around the sides of the front a mate following on a Honda CBXX 1100 Blackbird commented that he was grinding at the same time and could not believe the angles I was getting) while running a darkeside and have gotten 1000km's more out of this last metz which sort diffuses your therory that it speeds up the front tyre wear. I have just yesterday replaced Metz with a Shinko 757 (new release ) 150/80/17 RADIAL, Shinko used to be known as Yokoama and have good rep. something you might not be aware of is tat the metz is a cross ply the only other Radial is the Cobra which i will try if I am not satisfied with the Shinko. I think the biggest problem is that triumph used crossply tyres.
as for the braking issue I my self have exprenced an unexpected lock up with the Metzler that almost caused a highside and in the dry, it skewed sideways and lifted me out of the saddle but luckily I was able to catch it, upon pulling up and inspecting the surface of the road I found nothing wrong with the surface and a skid mark no more than an inch wide and yes I am an exprenced rider that honed my braking skills on dirt bikes many years ago an advocated balanced braking to the countless numbers of learners I have introduced to riding over the years,. I think you will notice the bike in the crashed bike was a Touring and not the Roadster which now have ABS mmm!!! could it be cause so many Stds and Clasics reported unexpected lock ups, don't be suprised if after few more tourings go down they don't put ABS on them to I wonder why Triumph saw fit to put the ABS on the model with the wider tyre first mmmm!!!
Now can please get back on topic and give honest reviews for those seeking feedback!!

Well I am not going to argue anymore and yes, I did notice the bike was not a Rocket Touring bike as they do not have dual head lights nor Corbin beetle bags. In addition, it was not a roadster or the operator would not have said he thinks he would have been better off with ABS.
If you are running a Shinko, it is most likely a good tire in fact since the Rocket stock rim is technically the wrong width for a 240 tire by 1/2 inch you could probably fit a 200 Shinko on the back. Who knows Shinko might have a wider one but I have not looked. Yes, there are more tires out there then the Meltzer, and yes many more people have ran the Meltzer without problems. Therefore, the answer is if you do not like the Meltzer, you go to a tire not designed for a bike at all, sounds like a bunch of **** just to justify a car tire. I personally like the cobra better then the Meltzer, but since my rim just shipped back to me today, I will be trying the Continental Conti Race Attack 240/40/Zr18 on my Classic, and the 120/70/Zr17 to match in the front. Next rim I send away is going too modified into a 17 inch so I can try even more varieties of motorcycle tires. As for getting off topic I was not, the one who stated the guy wrecked his bike because he had a Meltzer. I only stated that the guy on the .com site that reported the accident said he did not know the details so blaming a tire without knowing the details is plane asinine. I suppose if turns out a truck ran him off the road it’s the Meltzer’s fault!!!!
Just forget it your right you all get back on your subject. As for a car tire on a motorcycle there is no proper application except a Trike and the Can Am. Period!!!!
And have a Merry Christmas!!!!!

 

[HellFire]

It amazes me when I see people who don't have an interest in Darksiding spending so much time in a Darkside forum. There are foot fetish forums out there somewhere and since I don't have a foot fetish, I don't go there. Wouldn't it be silly of me to go to a foot fetish forum and speak negatively about rubbing feet? Might make you think I had other motives wouldn't it?

Just a thought ....