Triumph Rocket 3 340bhp

Jagster said:

Difficult to really say about that. You'd have to ride both bikes at the same venue on the same day, I guess.

Aside from tyre choice and therefore grip....At 370hp, the weak point now, is the clutch. After that, it's the gear ratios.

A tuner's job is never done......

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With all that power, the problem is keeping the rear tire hooked up.

I would have thought it should be fairly easy to achieve around 200 bhp and 200 lb of torque from a naturally aspirated Rocket engine with some judicious tuning (ie. hard engineering tuning, not tweaking on a dyno). That would still be a fairly modest output for a 2.5L engine but would be more than enough for a road-going bike.
That would represent a power and torque increase of around 30% if measured at the wheel. Those figures are typically available from blue-printing, dynamic balancing, piston, cam upgrades, head work, induction mods (exhaust and filter etc) and corresponding transmission, clutch and starting upgrades. But that assumes the stock engine has the scope within the constraints of its design for such tuning. Some have a lot of scope (Testastretta era desmo Ducatis for example). Some do not. Typically engines with a racing heritage provide the best opportunity for tuning as the basic design was engineered for high performance to begin with and then detuned for the road. I don't know where the Rocket engine lies within that spectrum but given the stock output from an engine of that size, I would have thought there would be a lot of potential from some fairly routine engine work.
I had my 1098 Ducati blue-printed and tuned and achieved a 25% boost but it comes at a cost in terms of day to day use. It's perfectly reliable in the sense that internally the engine can easily handle it, but it wears stuff out: batteries, tyres, chain and sprockets, starter sprags, clutches etc, and it uses a lot more fuel. So while it's perfectly usable it also quite demanding in maintenance. There's always something that needs doing.

For what it's worth you can get close to the 200/200 magic number from a naturally aspirated big inch (very big) Harley, but that would be a custom build and would cost at least as much as a supercharged Rocket and probably more, especially if you're not in America and don't have the parts and engineering expertise on your doorstep.
And then you'd need some serious and expensive upgrades to the chassis, suspension and brakes which you probably wouldn't to the same extent on a Rocket.

@Gimlet I think you've summed up why I don't have a huge motivation to go on a quest for any seriously enhanced performance.....car or bike.
It's just easier and most likely less costly just to buy something that's faster if you want faster.
An elephant is never going to beat a cheetah.... if you get my meaning.
Of course, that means that i've probably stated the obvious reason why most bike enthusiasts have more than just one bike. Each one has it's best uses.

Regarding anyone with grand ideas to take the their Rocket beyond 200hp.....The word in the 'workshop that knows' suggests that the stock pistons aren't up to the job, beyond 200hp, so they should factor that into their shopping list, amongst other things....

Jagster said:

@Gimlet I think you've summed up why I don't have a huge motivation to go on a quest for any seriously enhanced performance.....car or bike.
It's just easier and most likely less costly just to buy something that's faster if you want faster.
An elephant is never going to beat a cheetah.... if you get my meaning.
Of course, that means that i've probably stated the obvious reason why most bike enthusiasts have more than just one bike. Each one has it's best uses.

Regarding anyone with grand ideas to take the their Rocket beyond 200hp.....The word in the 'workshop that knows' suggests that the stock pistons aren't up to the job, beyond 200hp, so they should factor that into their shopping list, amongst other things....

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If I was going to tune the Rocket I'd look and blue-printing and balancing, as I did on my Ducati, and that would involve crank balancing, piston replacement, head flowing, valve upgrades and probably cam re-profiling and dialing. Then I'd look at clutch and transmission.
The question is whether these parts would be available off the shelf. If they would have to be one-off engineered it would probably be prohibitively expensive.
With Ducatis there are a number of independent specialists in the UK (my work was done by Rich Lewellyn at Luigi Moto). There's nothing these guys don't know about Ducatis and their expertise comes from race experience over many decades. Whether a comparable knowledge base exists for the Rocket I don't know but I would think Paul at TTS would be the best person to approach if I were to contemplate doing this.

Right now I still have a year of warranty on mine so nothing's going to happen any time soon. However, it may well in the future and from my Ducati experience, it's not really just about chasing numbers for the sake of it but getting the best out of what's there already and optimising it for the way I ride. That was the brief for the Duc. The numbers that resulted were a consequence of that brief. They weren't a target. I could have got more out of it (and still could) but that wasn't the objective.

I still think a 200/200 Rocket, judiciously done would be a wonderful road bike without being excessive. But the process would be about polishing a diamond, which I feel would likely result in something around those figures, not a mindless pursuit of those particular numbers.

Gimlet said:

If I was going to tune the Rocket I'd look and blue-printing and balancing, as I did on my Ducati, and that would involve crank balancing, piston replacement, head flowing, valve upgrades and probably cam re-profiling and dialing. Then I'd look at clutch and transmission.
The question is whether these parts would be available off the shelf. If they would have to be one-off engineered it would probably be prohibitively expensive.
With Ducatis there are a number of independent specialists in the UK (my work was done by Rich Lewellyn at Luigi Moto). There's nothing these guys don't know about Ducatis and their expertise comes from race experience over many decades. Whether a comparable knowledge base exists for the Rocket I don't know but I would think Paul at TTS would be the best person to approach if I were to contemplate doing this.

Right now I still have a year of warranty on mine so nothing's going to happen any time soon. However, it may well in the future and from my Ducati experience, it's not really just about chasing numbers for the sake of it but getting the best out of what's there already and optimising it for the way I ride. That was the brief for the Duc. The numbers that resulted were a consequence of that brief. They weren't a target. I could have got more out of it (and still could) but that wasn't the objective.

I still think a 200/200 Rocket, judiciously done would be a wonderful road bike without being excessive. But the process would be about polishing a diamond, which I feel would likely result in something around those figures, not a mindless pursuit of those particular numbers.

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If I were to use money to improve my riding experience on my Rocket, I think for me, it would be focussing on reducing weight, honing the suspension & refining the ergonomics.

- Taking any meaningful weight out of the bike is going to be very challenging indeed, but I would start by looking at the exhaust system, because there are other benefits to gain other than just weight. Perhaps battery & wheels. Maybe won't have the funds to go very far down that road, but will keep my eyes open for possibilities.

- Improving the ride quality would give the most smiles per mile, so much interest is going in that area. Lighter wheels would help a lot, but much of the unspring weight is in the tyres, so the suspension is my first port of call. Particularly the rear suspension.

- Ergonomic improvement for me, will come from new shaped handle bars giving a better balance between comfort and control. The seat is good but there are improvements to be had.

- None of these pursuits will come at the cost of aesthetics. At the end of the day, I think the bike as great, as it is.

Jagster said:

If I were to use money to improve my riding experience on my Rocket, I think for me, it would be focussing on reducing weight, honing the suspension & refining the ergonomics.

- Taking any meaningful weight out of the bike is going to be very challenging indeed, but I would start by looking at the exhaust system, because there are other benefits to gain other than just weight. Perhaps battery & wheels. Maybe won't have the funds to go very far down that road, but will keep my eyes open for possibilities.

- Improving the ride quality would give the most smiles per mile, so much interest is going in that area. Lighter wheels would help a lot, but much of the unspring weight is in the tyres, so the suspension is my first port of call. Particularly the rear suspension.

- Ergonomic improvement for me, will come from new shaped handle bars giving a better balance between comfort and control. The seat is good but there are improvements to be had.

- None of these pursuits will come at the cost of aesthetics. At the end of the day, I think the bike as great, as it is.

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I'm certainly going to start with a full decat exhaust system (which will reduce heat as well as weight) and a custom remap with restrictions removed and the throttle trimmed. Basically that will give you the bike Triumph would have built of the politicians had let them. Then I'll ride it and go from there. But if I do that I will want to fit unrestricted headers and options are limited, so I'm waiting to see what Paul Bryant comes up with.

I also plan to improve the suspension, which shouldn't be too difficult. Though before I change any parts I'm going to have a pro-suspension set-up for me and my weight. I've done that on pretty much every bike I've owned in recent years and it's some of the best value money you can spend. If it still needs work I'll look at after-market suspension upgrades.
I'm not a fan of the brushed aluminium-look plastics so I'm going to swap as many as I can for carbon. I prefer a blacked out look anyway and it will save a little weight. The backrest will go and carbon blanking plates fitted. I don't care for the look of the thing and I don't take pillions anyway. If that changes the backrest can easily be reattached. Again, a small weight saving.
Usually I remove pillion foot rests as well but I'm not sure that would look right on the Rocket with their neat and tidy design. I want to fit a longer rear hugger in carbon and an underseat tail-tidy, losing the heavy boot-scraper bracket. I may look into a lithium battery. The stock battery is barely adequate for the size of engine, but I'm cautious as I still don't entirely trust lithium.

When I first got the bike I too thought the seat would have to go. But I seem to have got used to it and it's now much more comfortable than it seemed at first. It could be better still but it's no longer a priority.
The ergonomics I'm good with. Bars are fine for me though I may adjust the peg position, just to see.

Yep. Looking forward to seeing what Paul brings to the arena.
Agreed about the pro suspension tuning.

It's all good. It's all interesting.......and fun.......We need more fun. The world seems to be turning into a repressive authoritarian nightmare these days........

Jagster said:

If I were to use money to improve my riding experience on my Rocket, I think for me, it would be focussing on reducing weight, honing the suspension & refining the ergonomics.

- Taking any meaningful weight out of the bike is going to be very challenging indeed, but I would start by looking at the exhaust system, because there are other benefits to gain other than just weight. Perhaps battery & wheels. Maybe won't have the funds to go very far down that road, but will keep my eyes open for possibilities.

- Improving the ride quality would give the most smiles per mile, so much interest is going in that area. Lighter wheels would help a lot, but much of the unspring weight is in the tyres, so the suspension is my first port of call. Particularly the rear suspension.

- Ergonomic improvement for me, will come from new shaped handle bars giving a better balance between comfort and control. The seat is good but there are improvements to be had.

- None of these pursuits will come at the cost of aesthetics. At the end of the day, I think the bike as great, as it is.

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I’d start with carbon fiber wheels and exhaust and then live with it.

Dr.D said:

I’d start with carbon fiber wheels and exhaust and then live with it.

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Have you got any figures relating to wheel weights? What potential savings have you seen?

Carbon wheels make a massive difference to throttle response from reduced inertia. I'd be interested to know how they'd affect the Rocket's steering as it's pretty light on its feet now.