Installed TORS today

Lostride said:

Thanks @cardinal93, can you describe what the general difference is as far as ride-ability is concerned, as per these changes? e.g. Is the bike more difficult to handle in tight slow turns because the slow speed restrictions have been modified? or is this not relevant to the situation ( i am a noob to tuning!)
Thanks!

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The percentage the secondary throttle plates are closed is regulated in the tune. So look at the secondaries table for 20219 or 20226 and you'll see numbers below 40%. In the decel tune, they're all 100%. I have been messing with my new 2007 Classic. It has a Jardine exhaust but it had the stock 20226 tune in it. I put in the decel tune with the O2 sensor turned off and it had problems idling until it warmed up. So I turned the O2 sensor back on. My bike has the secondaries removed. When the bike is idling, the secondaries close regardless what is in secondaries table. This is probably like choking it. So, don't take them out. With the O2 sensor on, it smoothed out nicely. But it explodes on hard decel. I don't think any of these mods affect ridability at low speed.

So today I decided to have a go at TuneECU and got everything going and communicating with the bike. The map that was loaded by the mechanics at Triumph was, as @dougl said, the 20226 map. I uploaded the 20050 map and did the 12 minute adaptation.

Yep, there is a noticeable difference in power it seems but now I had it stall at stop lights and one corner on the way back from testing, it seems the idle might be a bit low or perhaps the adjustments to control the decel backfiring snuff it out. It rides ok when not looking for idle.

The back-firing is still present but not as bad, it seems. I would have to go to the hills to test it in a real world situation (as opposed to driving pretty sedately around town with little to no engine braking)

Any ideas guys about how I can prevent it from snuffing out with the 20050? do I need to reset/adjust the idle value? (I think it is idling a tad lower than before)

Thanks

Lostride said:

So today I decided to have a go at TuneECU and got everything going and communicating with the bike. The map that was loaded by the mechanics at Triumph was, as @dougl said, the 20226 map. I uploaded the 20050 map and did the 12 minute adaptation.

Yep, there is a noticeable difference in power it seems but now I had it stall at stop lights and one corner on the way back from testing, it seems the idle might be a bit low or perhaps the adjustments to control the decel backfiring snuff it out. It rides ok when not looking for idle.

The back-firing is still present but not as bad, it seems. I would have to go to the hills to test it in a real world situation (as opposed to driving pretty sedately around town with little to no engine braking)

Any ideas guys about how I can prevent it from snuffing out with the 20050? do I need to reset/adjust the idle value? (I think it is idling a tad lower than before)

Thanks

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So it's idling ok when the engine is cold but stalls when it warms up? Try raising the idle to 850 at the two highest temperatures in the idle table.

dougl said:

So it's idling ok when the engine is cold but stalls when it warms up? Try raising the idle to 850 at the two highest temperatures in the idle table.

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ok, that is done. I haven't started it yet. Do I have to do the 12 minute adaption or can I use the "reset adaption" function?

Lostride said:

ok, that is done. I haven't started it yet. Do I have to do the 12 minute adaption or can I use the "reset adaption" function?

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I don't think you have to do the 12 minute tune. Yesterday, I loaded the decel tune with the o2 sensor off. It had some idle problems. So today I reloaded the decel tune with the o2 sensor on. When I turned on the engine, the tps light was green, so I assumed it was adapted. You're just upping the idle a bit. After you load the new idle, turn the engine on and see if the tps light is green.

dougl said:

I don't think you have to do the 12 minute tune. Yesterday, I loaded the decel tune with the o2 sensor off. It had some idle problems. So today I reloaded the decel tune with the o2 sensor on. When I turned on the engine, the tps light was green, so I assumed it was adapted. You're just upping the idle a bit. After you load the new idle, turn the engine on and see if the tps light is green.

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So I made the changes and unchecked the O2 sensor (I hadn't done that previously, wasn't sure what to do) and went to the gas station about 4 km away (2 1/2 miles). I could hardly get it to run without feathering the throttle. It seemed to be running hot and still lots of back firing, soft idle but seemingly lots of power when you give it the stick. After I gassed up, turing the ignition back on and it seemed to idle ok so I took it to an empty lot and did the 12 minute thing to be sure (my neighbors must be getting sick of the noise!). Having done that I only got a short ways down the road and it wouldn't stay lit on throttle down to idle so I pulled over to let it cool a bit. I got impatient and just rode it home working the throttle at lights etc. It sure ran like a dog with that tune in it for some reason, but plenty of power off idle seemingly...

I have just reloaded the 20226 tune and parked it down the street a bit to cool off (I need a beer).. I will give it the adaption cycle and annoy the neighbors down the road this time..

I will go easy on the decel with the stock tune and have a think about my next move.. at least it is ridable for now (hopefully). I might seek out someone local that can take a look at the setup, also the dealer said they have a 'rocket guy' so maybe I will see how they handle it.

Thanks for your advice, I will keep y,all posted.

oh, btw I am running 98 Octane unleaded

As @dougl explained no real difference in ridability. I've had my butterflies physically removed for over 2 years and no issues? They're sitting in a box, but I can't imagine them ever needing to go back in the bike. I was running 20050 for a couple years too, but with a few tweaks for the decel popping, but it never really went away completely. I have no issues with idling (it's around 850 hot or cold) and never had any stalling issues. I'm now running 20227 from @HansO and the decel popping is much decreased. I'll have to go double check, but I'm pretty sure my O2 sensor is checked on.
From my understanding of you choose to hit reset adaptation you should run a 12 min idle. Just for changing the two idle numbers, I don't think you'd have to do that. For any other major changes, including the O2 sensor, I would. But that's just because I'm not the smartest guy around on the subject and its costs me nothing but 12 mins to be on the safe side.

From my understanding, you can't drive to a parking lot and let it idle 12 mins to reset. You need to select reset adaptation while connected. Then start the bike, without touching the throttle and let it idle for 12 minutes then shut off and disconnect? If I'm wrong someone should correct me shortly. Send me your email and I'll send you the tune Hanso gave me. I just loaded it straight, changing no selections at all and she's running like a top!

The adaptation porocedure is just for idle. In tunecu,hitting reset adaptations sets the ecu to factory defaults. When I was using tuneboy, the instructions were to load a new tune, turn it off then on, hit reset adaptations, and that was it. No 12 minute tune. Never had a problem.

When you do the 12 minute tune after hitting reset adaptations, you have to wait for the fan to come on, then wait 12 minutes.

For his idle problem, I suggest loading the Triumph 20219 or 20226 tune for tors/cat bypass, hitting reset adapt, then doing the 12 minute tune.If it still doesn't idle right, there's something else wrong, like maybe the tps needs to be adjusted.

The popping on decel, ie, with the throttle closed or nearly closed, is caused by a lean condition. This is controlled in the L fuel tables, which work off manifold pressure. The decel tune has fuel added at low throttle position but it doesn't work perfectly. A lot of time has been spent trying to get the L tables right. the Power Commander overrides the fuel tables. It doesn't care which tables are controlling the fuel. It adjusts the fuel under all load conditions, including hard decel, at least if you tune it on a dyno. Presumably the AT does the same thing.

cardinal93 said:

As @dougl explained no real difference in ridability. I've had my butterflies physically removed for over 2 years and no issues? They're sitting in a box, but I can't imagine them ever needing to go back in the bike. I was running 20050 for a couple years too, but with a few tweaks for the decel popping, but it never really went away completely. I have no issues with idling (it's around 850 hot or cold) and never had any stalling issues. I'm now running 20227 from @HansO and the decel popping is much decreased. I'll have to go double check, but I'm pretty sure my O2 sensor is checked on.
From my understanding of you choose to hit reset adaptation you should run a 12 min idle. Just for changing the two idle numbers, I don't think you'd have to do that. For any other major changes, including the O2 sensor, I would. But that's just because I'm not the smartest guy around on the subject and its costs me nothing but 12 mins to be on the safe side.

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If you want to part with your secondary plates (and screws), I'll buy them.